Hi! Looking for information on my great uncle 4125198 EJ Austin 4th Cheshires

Discussion in '1940' started by Aidan pickstock, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. So ive been curious about my families involvement in the world wars and my great uncle caught interest. Problem is i cant find much. This is all i know:
    Son of Herbert and Elizabeth Austin, of Rudheath, Cheshire. Age at death: 22. Private. Service number: 4125198. Cheshire Regiment. Cemetery: Lessines, HT, BE, new communal cemetery, plot A, grave 4
    Name: Ernest James Austin
    4th battalion

    Any help is much appreciated, my end goal is too have a photograph of him.

    Casualty Details | CWGC
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Aidan

    The only real place to start is with his service records and they can only be obtained from the MOD - the forms can be found here Request records of deceased service personnel I would suggest filling in the Next of Kin forms marking the section that you are his great nephew and also the Army forms. You will not need a copy of his death certificate per se but you will need to include a copy of the CWGC certificate, as you have posted above, instead

    Once you have the records - which are as expected taking even longer these days, I would suggest you start a new thread for him so that all his details will be found in one place and upload them onto that thread

    TD
     
    Tony56 likes this.
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Owen - IIRC there used to be a rule that new members had to have posted a certain number of posts before they could start using the PM or conversation section - does that still exist, if it does then Aidan cant contact Drew

    TD
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    He can leave a message on his profile .
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Of course - whats it like to have brains

    TD
     
  7. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Forum member Peccavi `s father was a machine gunner with 4th Cheshires during the retreat . He may well be able to do a look up with their History. On post #306 he mentions the rearguard action at the "canalised River Dendre where 4 Cheshire were spread from Lessine to Papignies acting as rear guard covering the retreat." :-

    Did any of your family serve during WW2; if so what did they do?

    Papignies was where Pte Austin was buried originally. Theres also mention of another members relative Pte R Wallis (Ox and Bucks) who attached himself to 4th Cheshires and was killed on the 19th May 1940 as well. Wallis lies at nearby ISIERES COMMUNAL CEMETERY. The cemetery holds just nine casualties eight 4th Chesires and 1 Ox and Bucks (Wallace). . Six died on the 19th May,Two the 18th May and one on the 17th May 1940.

    Cemetery Details | CWGC



    Kyle
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  8. thanks for all the replies i have sent drew5223 for the war diary and will request the files from the mod!
     
  9. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi

    The British Army Casualty DB 1939-1945 on FMP says he was initially listed as missing (but no date recorded) and then updated in August 1941 to 'Died' on 19/05/40.

    This usually suggests his death might not be due to any action. More likely to have been sick.

    He can be found on some POW DB but only as having ever been listed as missing.

    Hope this helps

    Gus
     
  10. Also another thing i find interesting. On his ancestry it says he died in a pow camp but my research contradicts this. Any ideas?
    upload_2020-12-7_14-11-32.png
     
  11. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi Aidan

    These were the POW DBs I mentioned.

    Someone may correct me but personnel who were missing for a length of time. In his case nearly a year. Were put in these books thinking they would probably turn up at at POW camp some time in the future.

    He died only 9 days into the Battle of France so I would be very surprised if he was in a POW camp by then.

    Hope this helps

    Gus
     
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    upload_2020-12-7_14-51-16.png

    WO 392 shows POW's in alphabetical order then in service number order and our man is not shown here


    In the other database which is a derivative of the above there are 91 POW's with surname Austin but none are from Cheshire Regt

    As Gus says it often took a while for lists etc to be formalised

    TD

    The document you have uploaded says at the bottom re Cheshire regiment
    Name: Ernest James Austin
    Rank: Pte.
    Military Date: 1939-1945
    Service Number: 4125198
    Description: 172: British Army List of Missing to be Circulated to POW Camps: includes Copy of 1st & 2nd Lists

    48741_b429383-00137.jpg

    So he was not known as a POW - it was known he was missing and they are asking for information as to his whereabouts. Nothing on that record says he died or was a POW just that he was missing
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  13. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    If this makes sense he was never a PoW in the sense that he was imprisoned in a camp or issued a PoW number , but he `died` in German captivity possibly from wounds? Theres a German PoW Card for him at the National Archives
    Reference: WO 416/13/208
    Description:
    Name: Ernest James Austin.
    Date of Birth: 17 March 1918.
    Place of Birth: Lostock Gralam.
    Service: British Army.
    Rank: Private.
    Regiment/Unit/Squadron: [The Cheshire Regiment].
    Service Number: 4125198.
    Date of Capture: [unspecified].
    Theatre of Capture: [unspecified].
    Camp Name/Number: [unspecified].
    PoW number: [unspecified].
    Date of Death: 19 May 1940.
    Number of Photographs: 0.
    Number of Fingerprints: 0.
    Number of X-rays: 0.
    Number of Cards: 2.

    Kyle
     
  14. thanks Kyle now if theres any way i could get my hands on that pow card
     
  15. i found it never mind
     

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