Hi guys, can anyone help with 2NZEF info??

Regan -
I would agree with Andy 007 and scan the records which you have as you may be
flogging a dead horse in trying to establish a 5th reinforcement outfit -

in the British Army all reinforcements were landed in a Transit camp - the most infamous in Egypt was Abbassia Barracks - and from there the various units in need were able to call for as many men as they needed - there was little choice in where you went - the infamous Salerno Mutiny was the best witness to that where 1500 men of 8th Army regiments were shipped from Tripoli -now Lybia -Tripolitania at that time - instead of Bone(Annaba) Algeria to join British regiments in 5th US army...that was the objection and root cause of the Mutiny !
So perhaps if we can study his records - we might be able to clear this up without having a mutiny on our hands !
Cheers

 

It was the same with 2 NZEF Tom. All reinforcements were sent to the New Zealand base at Maadi camp from there they were assigned to the units that needed them.

 

Andy 007 -
didn't think it would be any different as a reinforcement is just that - a reinforcement on call for whoever needed him - 66 of various trades as Tank Crews went out to Algiers on my draft - 45 of us finished up in the 21st tank bde to fill up the ranks after the spare crews had been called on to fill the casualties as the Bde always kept about 24 spare crews on hand at 8 crews per regiment - we lost more than that in one day !
Cheers

 

Hi guys thanks again for all your input and efforts I will attempt to scan the history and casualty sheet in to the thread tonight, if I cannot get the files to work, I would be more than happy to email them to whoever would like to browse over it for me,

Kind regards

Regan Harris

 

Hi all,
Please find attached three documents from Lauri's war file, as you can see alot of it is quite hard to read, but hopefully someone will make more sense of it than I have......

I hope this may bring some answers to my previous questions, however I was told by a chap who works at the achieves dept that quite often the files have gaps due to things not being communicated to staff in NZ during the war (As the history sheet was kept in NZ)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards

Regan Harris.

P.S there other bits and pieces in the file if there is something else which may help please drop me a line.

 

Influenza Epidemic – 5th Reinforcements

Word was received by DDMS 2 NZEF that there was a considerable number of influenza patients among the 5th Reinforcements due to arrive in Egypt on 12 May. It was decided that the best course to follow was to isolate the whole contingent until the epidemic abated, and also to transfer all patients from 3 General Hospital to 2 General Hospital and use 3 General Hospital as an isolation hospital. Twenty sisters were transferred from 2 General Hospital to 3 General Hospital, and camp reception hospitals and convalescent camps were established in segregated areas at Maadi and Garawi to deal with cases arising in camp after the arrival of the troops.

The number of cases from the transports for actual admission to hospital was fewer than was at first indicated as the epidemic was on the wane, but it was decided to adhere to the arrangements already made. After admitting 290 infectious patients on 13 May, 3 General Hospital was isolated until 26 May, and as a result of the precautions taken the epidemic did not spread to the rest of the New Zealand force in Egypt.

 

AKE AKE KIA KAHA - 5TH REINFORCEMENTS - 2ND NZEF for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand

AKE AKE KIA KAHA - 5TH REINFORCEMENTS - 2ND NZEF

AKE AKE KIA KAHA - "For ever and ever be stronger in your fight"

This was the Troopship magazine of H. M. Transport No. 25 which carried the 5th Reinforcements 2nd NZEF via Colombo to the Middle East.

Due to wartime censorship no mention of the ship's name is allowed, but it was the Mauretania. The voyage took place approx April-May 1941.

Printed by The Times of Colombo, Ceylon. 46 pages. Paper wrappers.

Illustrated with both photos and sketches by those on board. Going by the number of articles and poems, us colonials were in those days, quite lyrical.

Has the roll of all units on board, those names would be of interest to their descendants today.

For those with a bent toward NZ military history, WWII etc is quite an interesting document.

Considering that it may have been carried through a war is in very good condition.

 

Hi Dave thanks for your post.

I have read a bit about the Influenza Epidemic with the 5th Reinforcements however I have been unable to work out on which particular transport this was connected to as I believe there were atleast two New Zealand troop ships heading for egypt at that time. Although I may be mistaken??

I guess its another question I'll have to look further into as this may have had something to do with my grand fathers time away

Also you mention the troop ship magazine Ake Ake Kia Kaha, I have had a look at the magazine you mentioned on Trade me and it is identical to one my mother has, which was handed down to her when Lauri died, so I guess that answers the question of which troop ship Lauri was on.

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Regan Harris

 

DigitalNZ Geoparser:Map and Metadata for Record 1517957, Charles P S Boyer, fl 1920-1940 : Crowd farewelling troopship Nieuw Amsterdam and 5 Reinforcements, Wellington

There must have been at least two ships then. Maybe only one had the influenza outbreak on it.

 

Do you have his Former servicemen's rehabilitation files ? Bruere, Lauri George 1945 - 1948

 

Hi Dave,
I believe you are right as far as I can tell there were the Mauritania and the Nieuw Amsterdam troop ships which left new Zealand together on the 7th of April 1941. I believe they next stopped in Australia where they were joined by other troop ships and became part of a convoy (US.9 or US.10 I think was the name of the convoy at the time)

As far as the Rehabilitation files go, no... I have very little. 1946 is the last date in his records. but he was discharged in that year. I did find a 'Top Secret' questioner from the UK achives which was basically a questioner for POW's I guess to find out what the prisoners may have heard or spoken about while being held by the enemy.

If there's any other info I can offer please drop me a line.

Kind Regards

Regan Harris

 

Hi Regan,
Thank you for posting the files. There seems to be a large gap between him being assigned to 22 Bn and being captured. I think that its also interesting that he wasn't assigned to a Battalion for a month which also fits with the training period in Egypt and refitting after the Battalions returned from Crete. I would suggest that IF he were transported by ship anywhere there would be some sort of description of him either leaving Egypt or arriving back in Egypt.
In regards to the Top Secret questionnaire there are some held in Archives NZ that were used to compile the Prisoner of War Official History but they are not open to the public without permission for another 5 years I think. I wonder if they are the same as the one you have?. Did you have to request that separately to his service record or did it come with it?

 

Assuming the rehabilitation file has other info not found in his army file I think it would be worth pursuing. It might have info from any claims he submitted etc.

Archway :: Item Full Description

If it has been 100 years from the date of birth or 40 years from the date of death then you should be OK to request it.

 

Hi Andy thanks for the reply, I agree with you it seem's most likleythat my grand father joined the 22 Battalion after the evacuations of Greece & Crete however my mother and uncles still argue that they heard him talk about Crete, and possibly even Greece. I can only presume that they must have confused his stories of the war with his actual experiences??

In regards to the Top secret document I found it online while searching the net for info on Lauri it came from a place called ''The National Archives UK'' obviously they have released declassified documents earlier than NZ? I could email you a copy if you like?? or otherwise you will find reference to it at this link:

The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Image Details

It will be interesting to see if anything else pops up.

Again thanks for all your help.

Kind Regards

Regan Harris

 

Hi Dave thanks for the link to the rehibilitation file, I didn't know that even existed!! It could prove to be a huge help.. Trouble is Lauri was Born in 1917 & Died 1981 that means I'll be waiting a few more years before i can access it unfortunately....

But as soon as they're available I'll check it out

Thanks again

 

Well I think I may have found something that will aid us....
In a POW questionare I have there is a question on the form which reads:

"Were you lectured in your unit on how to behave in the event of capture? State where, when and by whome"

Lauris response was:

BAGUSH, October 1941, 2nd Lut Farrel

Now we know Bagush was the training area in the western deserts of North Africa so somewhere between arriving in May and the battle of El Almein Lauri was clearly doing his desert training.

 

Thanks for that Regan, I think we maybe talking about two different forms.
That is a interesting piece of info there, and I think you may have found your answer.

 

Hi Andy, what was the form you were chasing? I am curious how long the training period would have been overseas upon arrival?

Cheers

 

The records I was thinking about were these ones here Archway :: Item Full Description
Thats a good question Regan, I think it may have depended on how desperate reinforcements were needed. One of the Veterans may have a better idea of how long in theatre training was.
Not sure if you got it Regan but I have sent you a Personal Message.

 

Andy,
perhaps Charles could give you some rough Idea of how long training was after arrival in Egypt. He was 7th reinforcements and arrived in August 1941.

The 22nd Btn Diaries for March to May 1941 are at Kew: WO 179/735 and there are Daily logs for May in WO 179/746.
Not looked at these myself but would be worth doing so.