Hi New to this forum, I have been a collector for many years mainly New Zealand Army WW1 and WW2 also signals. Just working my way around the forum. Cheers Jonathan
Welcome from an Old Veteran. Please fill me in: do you collect signalling equipment, or actual message forms that have been sent during WW2 or their wording or it is something completely different? As an Infantry Signaller have a section in my War memoirs devoted to an Infantry Signals Platoon and include a copy [p.44] of an actual signals message sent from an Infantry Brigade HQ to Division Intelligence about the disclosure by German P.o.W.s about the movement of reserves into the main battle zone. It is an excellent Forum and am sure you will find it full of interest and expertise. Again, welcome! Joe Brown
Thanks Peter and lesley. Hi Joe thanks for the Welcome yes I collect Signals Equipment, Uniforms, Manuals and Message forms, from both WW1 and WW2. I read though you memoirs, thank very interesting and some great info and history. One thing i am trying to track information Images on is the pack horse cable laying equipment, it may be from before you time, but I no it was used up until 1940 here in New Zealand, you may have had better equipment. Did you ever come across this? I have made an Illustration, I just would like to get it 100% correct, as can not find an example. Best Regards Jonathan
Work of the R.E. in the European War Signal Service in France Canadian Engineers WW1 - Diary - 1915 Wireless Telegraph: War Diaries of the First World War Canadian Corps Wireless Section 1916 War Diaries of the First World War
Jonathan, I was a classified as an Infantry signaller in the April 1940 and like all in the 8RS Signals Platoon trained to lay cable. It was usually a two and three party job, each with a specific role, as we laid DIII cable by hand. We would occasionally reel it out from the back of the Signals Store truck which was a 15-cwt vehicle driven at a slow pace. When I joined the 7/9RS I was for a period understudy Signals Officer whilst the Battalion was being trained in high altitude warface in mountainous terrain and in snow conditions. There was a mule company in the Division and we were allotted two or three mules for carrying signalling equipment, but I am sorry I cannot remember if we tried to use them for laying cable or if we were specially equipped to do so. It would have been interesting, as they could prove obstinate although we did have a handler to looking after them. To be able to strap our signal panniers on to their side and keep them from slipping off was difficult enough! Looking forward to reading the War Diaries that Wills has kindly out up and hopefully to find references to signalling during WW1. In the early 1940s we had not much changed from WW1 except for the advent of the 18 WS. Kind regards, Joe
Nothing worse than replying to thread answer the phone come back finish your link, post to find you have timed out and lose everything you have typed. Wills thanks for the links and information will be interesting to go though them. Joe thanks once again for you Time, It is not often I get the chance to ask someone who was there, the questions I want . Yes I read that in your memories, So it was Indian pack horse equipment or was it the standard British army G.S and other packs, not sure if you will no the difference? What signals equipment was carried on the pack horse equipment was it the 18 set or did you have a larger set if so how did they operate in such conditions? Did you use daylight signal lamps Signal telescopes or the scout regt type. I guess they must have trained you in Semaphore flags as well did you ever use these in or remember them ever being used in combat situation. Was the Heliograph still in use in your mountain training. I understand if you do not remember these details , with everything else you did. Thanks also Drew Regards Jonathan Here is a photograph of the cable packhorse late 1930s Here in New Zealand.
Dear Jonathan, What a wonderful picture of the cable packhorse. Glad we didn't have them on the signal platoon establishment. I am like the American lad being recruited into the WW1 Army when asked if he wanted to join cavalry, he quickly replied 'Hell, No! When they start shooting at me I don't want to be bother with any horse!' We had an Indian mule company at Div HQ, and as I recall the mules were small in stature but strong and reasonably quiet and hill tracking in the Cairngorms in the Highlands of Scotland was well within their scope. I cannot recall much about the type of harness we used but if it was not fastened properly the signal pannier would slide right down the load becoming lopped-sided so that you were unable to continue. When that happened during the snow and biting icy cold winds it was a ----- nuisance! The signal paniers would generally contain cable and cable-laying equipment, D5 telephones, two switchboards Universal 10-line, several spare 18WS and WS38, and batteries for WS18 which were very heavy because of the quantities needed. We also carried hand-operated generators; can't remember how many we had. We packed four signalling lamps and two telescopes, but I don't think we carried our two heliographs. We were trained to use semaphore which we instinctively used as personal communication between signallers, preferring morse flag or lamp for messages assuming wireless silence was in operation. In certain circumstances when the Battalion was deployed we would try to get a line to the main sub-units but in high altitude operation we expected to rely on visual or wireless as the principle means. Nice to be in touch. Joe
HM Grey Funnel line: Admiralty Handbook of Wireless Telegraphy 1938 Vol 1 Searchable With Cover Admiralty Handbook of Wireless Telegraphy Vol 2 Searchable. With Cover
Thank Mike and Lee, yes Delta living in Auckland born in Christchurch. And thanks wills for more links. Joe Thanks for filling in the information, and now I see you have allot of signals information listed in your memoirs link. I noticed you have the D mk 111 field telephone listed, they are nice phones I have 4 of them one D mk 111 and 1916 dated the other 3 1918 D mk 111*** I have seen them with WW2 unit marks before here in N.Z it shows how long in use they lasted. I also noticed you had a pic of the Fullerphone Mk111 or Mk111* normally dated 1918 or post WW1 I have heard they were a pain to set correctly these early models. Nice to no that the Daylight signal lamp was carried on the pack horse in 4 just like the early Begbie lamps. How did you carry the Stands for the lamps , or were they not used, Earlier they had a special bucket for the Helio Signal Lamp Stand, and a bucket for the Flags. Here is my drawing of the Cable pack horse the best I can do, as I do not no of a surviving example maybe one exists in the UK. I have drawn out most of the pack saddles from Med, M.G, Signals, Engineers, G.S also some of the Camel for WW1 will do WW2 when time permits. As used by Uk, NZ, AUS, CAN. the Indian army had their own designs and hard to find ant information on. And also a recreation of Italy summer of 1944 it was fun digging the this. 6th Hauraki Auckland Battalion
Dear Jonathan, Good morning from Worcestershire. I liked the DIII and first learnt morse code using them. We had a couple in the long former tearoom which billetted about thirty men being trained as signallers at the end of 1939 at Kinghorn in Fife on the East Coast of Scotland on the shores of the Firth of Forth. We were always larking around with them as we challengingly sent morse code to each other! It was also said that you could drop the DIII from the top of a telegraph pole and it would still work! We liked it because it had a morse key with a buzzer unit that could be adjusted in pitch by using a coin; and the folding telephone was compact and simple. Even after we got our first batch of DVs we used the DIII on line laying parties. I had an affection for it as it was WW1 and the possibility it would have been familiar to my Father who served from 1914-18. Once we were in action we liked collecting the German bakelite telephones as they equipped us to extend out cable network with extensions in the most unlikely places! Thanks for the expertly drawn picture of a cable pack saddle. It is fascinating and intrigued how it could be used. We had both spike and tripod for our Lamps Signalling Daylight Short Range; the spike was in the lamp box and always available to be used. However, we rarely used visual signalling after we ceased being trained in mountain warfare. We became airtranspostable but again were not deployed in this role and eventually went into action as traditional infantry. Wireless and/or line became our main means of communcation, even during an attack although primarily using wireless we would frequently follow the leading rifle companies with line-laying parties which was useful if and when the rifle company was held up because you quickly established line communication by teeing-in a telephone. Company commanders generally preferred telephoning as a natural way to be in touch with the Bn C.O. or to get mortar or artillery fire support; less procedure and much more simple to use. Warm regards, Joe
Joe, good morning from here. I like what you say about the D111 being able to be dropped from a telegraph pole and still working. A solid little unit. Where as the later linemans phone was in a steel box and larger, it must have been a pain to lug around. Did you used the hand reeler for cable, the type with the wooden frame and a strap over the shoulder?. or the larger drums with one man on either side with one leading and one paying it out. One question I have is about pliers the correct type was 8 inch side cutting MK1V for WW1 Royal engineers telegraph, with removable cutters. I have never seen a WW2 dated pair of these pliers did the signals just use any type of pliers different sizes in ww2? Worn on the linemans belt 03 pattern belt leather frog pliers clasp knife with hanger. I no a 37 pattern web pliers frog came out in 1941 to replace the leather type. here are the Mk IV pliers do you ever remember them in use? One o my D111 this one is in very good condition, being made in 1916, even the cords have not split . Regards Jonathan
