Help with Service Records. David Goldie - Scots Guards, L Detachment SAS, Special Raiding Squadron.

Hello and I must first congratulate you all on such a wonderful resource and place of research, I don't mind admitting I have spent quite a bit of time going through various threads!

I received my grandfather's Service Records many years ago and found it confusing, to say the least. I have recently come back to them and I have received some very patient and detailed help with them from a group on Facebook but I still have some questions that I hope you can help me with.

David Goldie enlisted with The Scots Guards and then joined L detachment SAS brigade. He then joined 1st SAS, squadron A and later went into the Special Raiding Squadron. From there he rejoined the SAS and was in C squadron, I think, and then back to the Scots Guards.

I have transcribed what I have found out with help from others but please feel free to correct any mistakes I may have made!

Dates on the Service Record:

28.02.39. Attested as a guardsman and posted to 2nd Battalion Scots Guards.
26.07.39. Joined the battalion.
03.01.42. Wounded in action (gunshot wound to the calf) and classed as X (ii) on his service record. This LIST comprises all ranks evacuated on medical grounds beyond RAP [Regimental Aid Post]. Personnel so evacuated cease to be on the effective strength of their units.
26.02.42 THE X (iv) LIST comprises all unposted reinforcements and incoming reinforcement drafts. Personnel discharged to Training Depots, fit for duty, are transferred to the X (iv) list of their corps, until posted to a unit, when they are struck off X (iv) and taken on unit strength.
01.04.42. Reposted and still in 2nd Battalion Scots.
21.03.42. Forfeits 3 days pay and one days RWD for absence by OC. IBD
25.03.42. Deprived of 3 days pay and forfeits one days pay by RW for absence.
03.05.42 Placed on the X (i) LIST comprises all ranks posted to fill vacancies in authorised WEs (War Establishments)
03.05.42. Joined L Detachment SAS Brigade.
21.9.42. Joined 1st SAS Regiment.
21.09.42. Promoted to acting Unpaid Corporal meaning he held the rank but got no extra pay.
21.09.42. Promoted to Paid Acting Corporal meaning he now gets paid.
20.12.42. Promoted to corporal (WSR) WSR is a war substantiated rank so his corporal rank means the rank is held for the duration of the war.
24.01.43. Left Egypt for Syria.
13.02.43. Left Syria.
15.02.43. Entered Egypt.
19.03.43. Joined the Special Raiding Squad. Added to 12 GH and SOS Special raiding Squadron?
02.06.43. Placed on the wounded list again? Discharged from the hospital (53 GH) and taken on strength.
24.06.43. Placed on the Xi LIST and re-joined the Special Raiding Squad.
28.10.43 Embarked for Tripoli + SOS xi Raiding Squadron to BNAF. Taken on strength Xi list from Special Raiding Squadron from MEF. North Africa.
26.12.43. Embarked for the UK + SOS list Xi list.
05.01.44. Disembarked in the UK.
07.01.44. Posted towards completion of WE. From Special Raiding Squadron. Re-joined the 1st SAS and was promoted to Acting Sergeant.
01.04.44. Transferred to the Army Air Corps.
16.11.44. Transferred to the Scots Guards. He was on the Xiv list which means that personnel discharged from (x(ii)) to Training Depots, fit for duty, are transferred to the X (iv) list of their corps, until posted to a unit, when they are struck off X (iv) and taken on unit strength.
17.11.44. Posted to a Reinforcement Holding Unit 44. Unknown Unit or posting.
25.11.44. Drafted to “SEQOT” Unknown Unit or posting.
15.01.45. Taken on Strength to Reinforcement Holding Unit 33. He was probably posted to Corbie, France.
David was court marshalled on the 9th of June 1945 and he was charged on three counts.
Count 1 - When on active service drunkenness.
Count 2—When on active service offering violence to his superior officer. He attempted to strike Captain Beresford Acc.
Count 3 - When on Active service, striking his superior officer RSM. E. Finnerty.
He pleaded guilty to the first charge and not guilty to the second and third charges.
He was found guilty on all three charges and was demoted from acting sergeant to guardsman.
15.04.45.

I am stuck on the following:

17.11.44 - Does anyone have any information on what RHU 44 did or where they were?
25.11.44 - Again same question about “SEQOT” Unknown Unit or posting.
15.01.45 - Again same question about RHU 33.

I am also struggling with the last few entries after he left the SAS and went back to the Scots Guards. Also, any information about what he did whilst in the various postings would be gratefully received, thank you.

 

Hi,

Before I look into his record in further detail, I would like to say that his FGCM made me smile. If you are going to get reduced to the ranks, do it in style - belting his RSM, what a cracker!

 

He remained a cantankerous old man until he died!

 

If thats a picture of him above your username, he looked like a tough bugger. I am looking forward to seeing this thread evolve and hearing more about his service.

 

Yes, that's him and yes he was! I have a lot of his photos from his time in the army and I'll upload them in the gallery. I'm sure members will spot a few well known names and perhaps some of thier relatives.

 

I look forward to seeing them. I have a good many of my relatives that I should upload too.

 

Hi,

If you were provided with the papers by RHQ SG you may not be aware that they sold their service record archives to FMP a couple of years ago - to raise funds for the Regimental Charities.

Whilst you may not find his papers in the Scots Guards records on FMP - they seem to concern men who enlisted before 1936 - you may find papers for other people mentioned in his service papers.

I’ve flagged this topic to forum member Skip as he has an interest in Special Forces personnel. I let him have papers from a number of SG special forces personnel service records in the SG archives on FMP.


Steve

 

Abbreviations are best found on: Second World War Abbreviations and Acronyms - Researching WW2

RHU is Reinforcement Holding Unit

There are several threads here on RHU, on a quick search neither of the two you seek.

SEQOT is NT on that website nor appearing on Google as a military term.

 

Oh, that's interesting because I would like to know what he did in the Scots Guards before he transferred to L detachment SAS. In particular, if he was engaged in the Commandos at any point...

 

SEQOT is likely a draft code.

He was likely sent to NWE as a potential reinforcement for the Scots Guards infantry companies serving there (from memory - due to a shortage of men a SG company were serving with Irish Guards. 2nd SG were sent to NWE in early 1945).

It appears he got no further than the reinforcement holding unit as he was likely “talent spotted” as an experienced Brigade of Guards NCO with valuable “fighting experience” of much use on the permanent staff of such a unit. I saw records of several men who held positions at similar units.

If he had gone to a Middle East Commando or G Patrol LRDG prior to his posting to L Detachment his B103 record would have reflected the transfer.

Steve

 

Hi

This looks like the officer he punched.

ARMY CATERING CORPS. 5193073 Raymond BERESFORD 292463

He was in the ranks before taking a commission. The first service number is the service number before commissioning. The second service number on commission.

Hope this helps

Gus

 

That's excellent Steve, thank you. Am I right in thinking that what you have said is that he served with 2nd Battalion Scots Guards in France?

 

I hope his relative is not on here!

 

There are about 144 photos in his photo albums and I think there is a restriction on the number of uploads in the gallery. For those who are interested you can view them all here:

My Grandfather's War Photos.

 

Hi,

No.

He was likely sent overseas as part of a reinforcement pool to serve with X company Scots Guards as required. They were then serving with 1st Welsh Guards (not Irish Guards) at the time. 2nd SG only went overseas to Europe in 1945.

However he never joined a Scots Guards unit and remained attached to the reinforcement holding unit. That is where he had his “discussion” with the unit RSM.

Steve

 

Ah, thank you for clearing that up.

 

There are some L Det & SAS photos in that album that I suspect have not been seen in the public domain previously.

There will be a great interest in them from Special Forces experts - especially after the BBC drama based on Ben MacIntyre’s SAS Rogue Heroes series is shown later this year.

The regimental funeral looks to be pre war - likely when 2nd SG were based in Cairo. Men were regularly passing away of natural causes during their time overseas in “tropical climes”. I have similar photos of a 1938 Coldstream Guards regimental funeral in Alexandria.

The Right Flank photo is also likely 2nd SG and appears to be taken in a desert area - likely during training 1939/40. My mothers cousin was RF 2SG 1935/38 but was posted to LF 1st SG immediately prior to 2nd SG going on their 2 year posting to Egypt as he was due for discharge within a year. He was wounded and captured in Norway.

You will likely have ample a opportunity to research some of the names on the photographs in the SG papers on FMP.

I’ll flag the album to Skip and Paul Nield who had a relative serving with 2nd SG.

Steve

 

Thanks Steve, I did wonder about the funeral and I didn't realise that they were passing away of natural causes so that's very intersting but sad to hear.

I did post the photos on Facebook some years ago and several people downloaded them and asked to use them in various projects. I'm happy for them to be seen because I think it adds to the story and hopefully there may be photos of loved ones that their family may not have seen.

I currently have a full subscription to Ancestry so I might take a trial with FMP to look up information on the men and the Scots Guards.

Thanks again for the information, it all helps me to honour his service and his memory. I did similar for his father who was killed in WW1 with The Black Watch. I just wish I had asked him questions when he was still alive.

 

He appears in Post 3 on: SAS, Identify Members in Photo

 

Yes, I added another picture of him to that thread. Cheers!