Help with Leonard EDWIN please

Discussion in 'General' started by Mavis Williams, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. DianeE

    DianeE Member

    TD There are family trees on ancestry for Edwin Leonard. Perhaps they could shed some light on this.
    Diane
     
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  2. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I have been watching this one unfold and it really is a bit of a puzzler ? So based on what has been written do we assume any connection to Hawarden could be through marriage ?

    If the answer is Yes or even maybe can I draw your attention to this `Edwin Leonard` wrongly transcribed in `findmypast` as `Edwin Leonard Edwin`
    There`s a baptism record showing
    Edwin Leonard
    St Mark Church ,Noel Park,Middlesex
    1915
    Parents;-
    Edwin Leonard (Gunner RGA)
    Harriet Emma (nee Westbrook) Leonard
    Address;-
    47 Dawson Road,

    Pure speculation but based on the 1915 birth-date and an age of 30 (to give an age relevant for WW2 Service) I did a `death search` (4 year lea way) and found;-
    Edwin C Leonard
    Born 1915
    Died 1948
    Age 33
    Paddington
    Registered June 1948

    and a Probate record for;-

    NAME: Edwin Leonard
    DEATH: 24 Nov 1942 - Surrey, England
    CIVIL: 11 Jan 1943 - Llandudno


    As I said speculation and no obvious direct connection to Hawarden but it may be something to work on? Death in 1948 would not get him a CWGC commemoration and the casualty lists on `findmypast` are far from complete with some missed completely and others not deemed as `battle casualties` not recorded/omitted .

    Any thoughts?

    Kyle
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  3. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    O.M.G.!!!! Thank you Guy, why couldn't I find it before? Tried swapping surnames etc., Sometimes they don't want to be found. The War memorial, is for the "Fallen", not, a Roll of Honour. I cannot find him on the CWGC database either. I have found his parent's marriage at St. Deniol's Church Hawarden and Brassington is a name I have hear of in Connah's Quay.

    North Wales Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
    Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
    LEONARD John W BRASSINGTON Clara Hawarden, St Deiniol Flintshire (Mold) C106/03/E260

    Thank you so much, although lots' more to find by the looks of it. I am very grateful, thank you, at least we are on the Way! Kindest regards, Mavis
     
  4. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hi Mavis,

    Sorry but I`m confused even more ,this Edwin Leonard appears to have married in 1962 so it cannot be him can it? Or am I missing the obvious? (again)

    Kyle
     
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    could have done something extra dah de dah etc to be on the memorial
    need to see the original transcript of the memorial that should tie it down
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Edwin Leonard
    Registration Date: 1927
    Registration district: Holywell
    Inferred County: Flintshire
    Re-registration Year: 1927
    Mother's Maiden Name: Brassington
    Volume Number: 11b
    Page Number: 271

    1939 England and Wales Register
    Name: Edwin Leonard
    Gender: Male
    Marital Status: Single
    Birth Date: 10 Jan 1927
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 'Wiksholme' Aston Hall
    Residence Place: Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales
    Occupation: At School
    Schedule Number: 180
    Sub Schedule Number: 6
    Enumeration District: ZNAS
    Registration district: 620/1
    Inferred Father: John Leonard
    Inferred Mother: Clara Leonard
    Household Members:
    Name
    John Leonard
    Clara Leonard
    Clara C Leonard
    Olive Leonard
    Stanley Leonard
    Edwin Leonard

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Edwin Leonard
    Death Age: 75
    Birth Date: 10 Jan 1927
    Registration Date: Apr 2002

    Registration district: Chester and ellesmere Port
    Inferred County: Cheshire
    Register Number: C52
    District and Subdistrict: 3401C

    Need to check the DC - if he died in 2002 how come hes on the memorial??

    TD
     
  7. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Hopefully Mavis will be able to confirm if a mistake has been made in compiling the roll?
    I have had similar problems in compiling nominal rolls with confusion over forename and surname order.
     
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    hello Mavis

    Just out of interest how are you using all the info supplied so far from forum members on all the casualties
    Do you have finished pages with the info on just to show us.


    regards
    Clive
     
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Can I suggest here that Mavis checks her info in the area etc, we all seem to be chasing ghosts a little here and it would be good to try and go back to some of the original source material, otherwise we will all be going down blind alleys

    So, Mavis if you could check details of how/why he was on the list, if hes local presumably he would be buried somewhere near there (as hes not on CWGC)

    Personally I will await your return hopefully with more detail

    TD
     
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  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    As a cross reference theres a WW2 Book of Remembrance and Roll of Honour currently held at;-
    FLINTSHIRE COUNTY RECORD OFFICE
    Rectory Drive
    Hawarden
    Alyn And Deeside
    Clwyd
    Wales

    Another WW2 Bound Book/Roll containing 111 men from WW2 can be found at;-
    St Deiniols Church
    Cross Tree Rise
    Hawarden
    Alyn And Deeside
    Clwyd
    CH5 3NR
    Wales

    Kyle
     
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  11. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone, I am going to have a look at the Council Minutes or the Church Records, if I can as this is so confusing, but I have scanned the Monumental Inscriptions pages for the WW2 War Memorial. Scan0033.jpg Scan0034.jpg



    I will have to go through the Parish Register for the marriage of his possible parents and see if I can track him from there, these seem to be the births that are on the 1939 Register, will have to go through the Baptisms:-
    North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1913
    Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
    LEONARD Clara C Hawarden Flintshire (Mold) HAW/16A/62


    North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1915
    Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
    LEONARD John Clifford Hawarden Flintshire (Mold) HAW/20A/24


    North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1918
    Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
    LEONARD Olive Winifred Flint Flintshire (Mold) FLNT/55/21


    North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1924
    Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
    LEONARD Stanley Flint Flintshire (Mold) FLNT/59/69

    North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1927
    Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
    LEONARD Edwin Flint Flintshire (Mold) FLNT/61/24

    However, we do not know if the Edwin who married in 1962 is "our" Edwin, obviously if he is he is not "ours."
    Is this his marriage, I cannot find it on the North Wales BMD, this is from FREE BMD.:-
    FREE BMD Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
    Marriages Mar 1962 (>99%)
    LAWLOR Patricia D LEONARD Hawarden 8a 1003
    LEONARD Edwin Lawlor Hawarden 8a 1003

    Possibly a Civil Ceremony but can look in the Parish Registers. Will have to get up to the Record Office ASAP. Regards, Mavis
     
  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    could there be a mistake and the Leonard Edwin is in fact Leonard Edwin Price

    I see that there is a Leonard Edwin Price inscribed adjacent on the other panel


    one on CWGC burial not very far from the area of the memorial
    Flight Sergeant PRICE, LEONARD EDWIN
    Service Number 508981

    Died 03/09/1943

    Royal Air Force

    Husband of Margaret Ellen Price of Glanville, Aston Hill, Hawarden, Flintshire.
    Died at Upton Emergency Hospital.

    [​IMG]
    Leonard Edwin Price (1910-1943) - Find A Grave...
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  13. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

  14. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Well done Clive, you've cracked it.
    Mavis, It may help in future to post what documents you have with the initial question.
     
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Whooooooose a clever boy - looks like they mixed up the names off the lists

    Nice one CL1 :salut:

    TD
     
  16. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thanks Clive, but I am confused, as I cannot see PRICE, Leonard Edwin on the panel at all, possibly not looking at the right thing, do you mean the WW2 War Memorial? I will pursue this of course. Thanks again,
    Kind regards, Mavis
     
  17. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Mavis,
    Your scan of the Monumental Inscriptions pages says that Leonard Edwin Price is inscribed on the stone of the monument right hand.
    The page for the left hand side also says Sydney Walter Bryan is inscribed on the stone. There is a picture of the memorial here HAWARDEN WAR MEMORIAL | Coflein and I can see in the picture of the left hand plaque the names of Sydney Walter Bryan and William Ellsum inscribed in the stone base. There is no picture for the right hand side but I presume you will find Leonard in a similar place. Hope this helps.

    Tim
     
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  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Royal Air Force Airmen Records, 1918-1940
    Name: Leonard Edwin Price
    Gender: Male
    Age: 18
    Birth Date: 26 Mar 1910
    Birth Place: Wellington, Wellington, Shropshire, England
    Service Date: 18 Jul 1928
    Service Number: 508981
    Next of Kin: E. Price
    Relation to Airman: Grandmother

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
    Name: Leonard Edwin Price
    Registration Year: 1910
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Wellington Sal
    Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
    Inferred County: Shropshire
    Volume: 6a
    Page: 707

    TD
     
  19. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hawarden WW2 Servicemen


    The name is not on a panel but engraved on the left capping stone as you face the memorial

    Roll of Honour - Flintshire - Hawarden

    Kyle :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
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  20. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Oh my goodness, I had forgotten that I had taken photographs of the names on the tops of the columns, which I have tried to upload to show you, also the other side of the WW2 names, but they are too big to upload. Apologies to all, so it seems that Leonard Edwin's name has been added twice, once as Leonard EDWIN and then, later, again, but as Leonard Edwin PRICE, on the top of the Right Column. The names were hard to read, very weathered and of course I never connected them. I was merely concentrating on the names on the Big Plaques. It was many years ago, that I took those photographs to begin with. Sorry to take so long to realize. Thanks so much for your patience. Kindest regards, Mavis
     

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