Help with Grandad's Records - Desert Rats - North Africa & Italy

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by James M. Green, Feb 20, 2023.

  1. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    Hi all,

    I'm looking for some help in regards to understanding my grandad's war history - and would also love to find info on any soldiers that might have served alongside him. We have a tracer card, regimental war diary, and service and casualty form.

    Sergeant Clement Kenneth TAYLOR
    7908611

    1st King's Dragoon Guards / Warwickshire Yeomanry / 55th Tank Regiment / Royal Armoured Corps

    We know that he was in the Desert Rats and served in North Africa and Italy - we have some excellent photos of Florence whilst it was being liberated. We also have him briefly at Buchanan Castle, Stirling, later on - potentially as an Duty N.C.O.

    Some of the particular terms that we are interested in understanding are:
    SOS this depot accordingly w.e.f.
    T.O.S. from RAC Depot
    SOS to 20 CRU
    P.A.N/P.A.M? SOS
    Posted to 'Y' List (E) - Class 'A' Release
    Released to Class Z (T) - Class 'A' Release

    I've looked up some of these acronyms online, but it can be quite hard to put them into context when used alongside each other, so really any help at all is appreciated!

    Many thanks
     
  2. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Fairly standard acronyms for a Service Record the odd bits in brackets may or may not be available from other members

    SOS this depot accordingly w.e.f.
    Struck Off Strength depot accordingly with effect from
    i.e. Posted elsewhere

    T.O.S. from RAC Depot
    Taken On Strength (Transferred) from Royal Armoured Corps Depot to another unit and taken on their strength (List).

    SOS to 20 CRU
    Struck Off Strength (then sent to) 20 Central Reserve Unit (Query on the C could be Command)

    P.A.N/P.A.M? SOS
    not sure of P.A.N/P.A.M SOS = Struck Off Strength taken off this particular posting or units strength (number of men).

    Posted to 'Y' List (E) - Class 'A' Release
    Posted to Y List (E) Class A Release
    Y list is placing him on hold awaiting discharge either from long term sick or when returned to UK for release.
    (Class A not sure of correct terminology perhaps other members can help)

    Released to Class Z (T) - Class 'A' Release Released to Class Z (T) Discharged End of Service Requirements
    (T might = Technical)
    Z is the last classification used at time of release release from service. (Normally a stamp on the discharge papers)

    If you want to know more it would be advisable to apply for his full service record from MOD or TNA.
    Post a copy of the original documents particularly the B103 sheets.
    Members can then see the context in which they are used.

    Tracer cards are normally very sparse and can be confusing but it is a start.
    Post it if you wan to show the context. It would be easier to explain the Terminology applying to your particular card.

    RAC is not my normal study area but I am aware of some of the KDG activities in Florence as they crop up occasionally
    in A regimental History that I am familiar with.

    I will watch your progress and if it is relevant will post the event.

    Good Luck in your endeavours.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  3. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    1 KDG were the first unit into Naples on 1 Oct 43.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  4. bofors

    bofors Senior Member

    HI

    I am sure Class A means he was fit and able to serve in any part of the army in any place.

    regards

    Robert
     
  5. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    Thank you all so much for these replies!

    Uncle Target - Really appreciate your long detailed post and kind words, that has helped narrow things down. We do have the full received docs from the army, I will speak to my family about that - we got the tracer itself from The Tank Museum a few years back. The regimental diary does have some great detail about Florence!

    Frank - That's very interesting, he lost a comrade near Monte Casino as well. Quite a few places in Italy mentioned in that diary.

    Robert - Ahh I see, that has really been one of the most confusing parts for us.

    We have a badge that signifies being some sort of radio operative/engineer, and there was talk of being a tank commander too.

    Thanks all
    James
     
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  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

  7. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Do you have the dates he was with the King's Dancing Girls?

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  8. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Demob - bit more here:
    Demob.jpg

    Edit
    Demob - Copy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2023
    SteveDee, bofors and 4jonboy like this.
  9. bofors

    bofors Senior Member

  10. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi

    KDG were sent to Athens at short notice to help quell a Communist insurgency in December 1944.

    I have the official report if you are interested.

    Hope this helpd

    Gus
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2023
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    We need some dates for when he was with those Regiments.

    Good info here on Warwickshire Yeomanry in Italy , maybe of help if he was with them then.
    > Italy
     
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  12. SteveDee

    SteveDee Well-Known Member

    Hi Tony, this is not an easy read. Do you have a higher resolution copy of this image that you could either post or PM me?
     
  13. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Post #8 edited
     
  14. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Mention of KDG in Florence from A History of the 67th Field Regiment 1st Infantry Division who took over from 8th Army.
    During the handover Florence was declared a "no fire" zone for Artillery and Armoured main armament.

    446 Battery Commander along with the Intelligence Officer visited the forward troops at the Ponte Rossi (the bridge across the Mugnone).
    They saw two Jeeps belonging to the Sappers. The owners were sniped when lifting mines and boobytraps from the crater which was once a bridge.
    To rescue these trucks the KDG's Recce vehicle blazed away with a Besa and swung its 2 pounder into action.
    The I.O said "He will fire his 2 pounder" BC 446 replied "They are not allowed to fire the 2 Bang!"
    O.C 238 Field Coy and another officer, mounted onto the rear of the Recce Car and drove down to the Jeeps and under extensive covering fire
    drove back in the Jeeps in reverse, at a great rate.
    At least 200 civilians witnessed this party and cheered the actors.

    I would much appreciate seeing any photos of Florence as it was taken over by 1st Division
    and garrisoned by 2 Infantry Brigade. From which they advanced north to the Gothic Line.
    I know Florence fairly well having worked there in the 70's
    The 67th lost three officers and a Bombardier in La Pietra when the Survey Jeep struck a nest of Teller anti tank mines.
    Blowing it over a 6ft wall.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
  15. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    Hi all, here's some of his records -

    Scan 1.png Scan 2.png Scan 3.png 1.png 2.png 3.png 4.png

    Thanks
    James
     
  16. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    Here is some of the Florence photos -

    CKTaylorWW2Photo1.png CKTaylorWW2Photo2.png CKTaylorWW2Photo3.png CKTaylorWW2Photo4.png CKTaylorWW2Photo5.png CKTaylorWW2Photo6.png CKTaylorWW2Photo7.png
     
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  17. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    Tony - Good evidence for the class there thank you.

    Gus - Very interested, yes please!

    Owen - Another great diary, thank you. I've also now found the Derbyshire Yeomanry mentioned on his docs as well.

    Uncle Target - Fascinating anecdotes.

    Thanks all
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Ah, I see he was KDG for the duration of the war & Warks Yeo afterwards.
     
  19. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Does he mention who the chap was that was killled at Cassino?

    I ask because I am going there next Tue-Sat to guide a group. It would be good to tip my hat to him.

    1 KDG were in the Cassino area for the First Battle. They were part of 23 Armoured Brigade and, at the time, were dismounted and operating as infantry. There role was to fill the gap between the Liri Valley where II (US) Corps were deployed in front of the monastery and the lower Garigliano where X (BR) Corps were preparing their massive Jan 44 river crossing operation.

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  20. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Photos #16
    I am 90%+ that they were all taken in the Piazza San Marco the church is the Basilica San Marco.
    The Vehicles are crossing the Ponte Santa Trinita the only bridge across the Arno open for some time.
    The buildings have all changed but rebuilt in a traditional design to look old.

    See Sit Rep attached re KDG and Ponte Rosso mentioned in my previous posting.
    Not far from the Piazza San Marco.
    The British Army always had their own spelling for "foreign parts" in this case Rosso was Rossi.

    Today we drink Vino Rosso (Red wine)
    Florence SitRep.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023

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