Help with Grandad's Records - Desert Rats - North Africa & Italy

Hi all,

I'm looking for some help in regards to understanding my grandad's war history - and would also love to find info on any soldiers that might have served alongside him. We have a tracer card, regimental war diary, and service and casualty form.

Sergeant Clement Kenneth TAYLOR
7908611

1st King's Dragoon Guards / Warwickshire Yeomanry / 55th Tank Regiment / Royal Armoured Corps

We know that he was in the Desert Rats and served in North Africa and Italy - we have some excellent photos of Florence whilst it was being liberated. We also have him briefly at Buchanan Castle, Stirling, later on - potentially as an Duty N.C.O.

Some of the particular terms that we are interested in understanding are:
SOS this depot accordingly w.e.f.
T.O.S. from RAC Depot
SOS to 20 CRU
P.A.N/P.A.M? SOS
Posted to 'Y' List (E) - Class 'A' Release
Released to Class Z (T) - Class 'A' Release

I've looked up some of these acronyms online, but it can be quite hard to put them into context when used alongside each other, so really any help at all is appreciated!

Many thanks

 

Fairly standard acronyms for a Service Record the odd bits in brackets may or may not be available from other members

SOS this depot accordingly w.e.f.
Struck Off Strength depot accordingly with effect from
i.e. Posted elsewhere

T.O.S. from RAC Depot
Taken On Strength (Transferred) from Royal Armoured Corps Depot to another unit and taken on their strength (List).

SOS to 20 CRU
Struck Off Strength (then sent to) 20 Central Reserve Unit (Query on the C could be Command)

P.A.N/P.A.M? SOS
not sure of P.A.N/P.A.M SOS = Struck Off Strength taken off this particular posting or units strength (number of men).

Posted to 'Y' List (E) - Class 'A' Release
Posted to Y List (E) Class A Release
Y list is placing him on hold awaiting discharge either from long term sick or when returned to UK for release.
(Class A not sure of correct terminology perhaps other members can help)

Released to Class Z (T) - Class 'A' Release Released to Class Z (T) Discharged End of Service Requirements
(T might = Technical)
Z is the last classification used at time of release release from service. (Normally a stamp on the discharge papers)

If you want to know more it would be advisable to apply for his full service record from MOD or TNA.
Post a copy of the original documents particularly the B103 sheets.
Members can then see the context in which they are used.

Tracer cards are normally very sparse and can be confusing but it is a start.
Post it if you wan to show the context. It would be easier to explain the Terminology applying to your particular card.

RAC is not my normal study area but I am aware of some of the KDG activities in Florence as they crop up occasionally
in A regimental History that I am familiar with.

I will watch your progress and if it is relevant will post the event.

Good Luck in your endeavours.

 

1 KDG were the first unit into Naples on 1 Oct 43.

Regards

Frank

 

HI

I am sure Class A means he was fit and able to serve in any part of the army in any place.

regards

Robert

 

Thank you all so much for these replies!

Uncle Target - Really appreciate your long detailed post and kind words, that has helped narrow things down. We do have the full received docs from the army, I will speak to my family about that - we got the tracer itself from The Tank Museum a few years back. The regimental diary does have some great detail about Florence!

Frank - That's very interesting, he lost a comrade near Monte Casino as well. Quite a few places in Italy mentioned in that diary.

Robert - Ahh I see, that has really been one of the most confusing parts for us.

We have a badge that signifies being some sort of radio operative/engineer, and there was talk of being a tank commander too.

Thanks all
James

 

From Hansard:
"The term "Class A" had, of course, nothing at all to do with medical categorisation; it simply meant that he was due for release in the normal way and not in any priority class."
WAR DISABLEMENT PENSION (MR. GIRDLESTONE) (Hansard, 7 December 1965)

Also:
"Like the rest of the Army, they will be eligible for Class A release with their normal age and service groups, unless they voluntarily elect to serve on."
Demobilisation (Hansard, 16 October 1945)

 

Do you have the dates he was with the King's Dancing Girls?

All the best

Andreas

 

Demob - bit more here:


Edit

 

Hi

I was thinking of this - British Army Medical Categories 1914 – Epsom & Ewell History Explorer
But it is for WW1, so not sure if applied in WW2??

regards

Robert

 

Hi

KDG were sent to Athens at short notice to help quell a Communist insurgency in December 1944.

I have the official report if you are interested.

Hope this helpd

Gus

 

We need some dates for when he was with those Regiments.

Good info here on Warwickshire Yeomanry in Italy , maybe of help if he was with them then.
> Italy

 

Hi Tony, this is not an easy read. Do you have a higher resolution copy of this image that you could either post or PM me?

 

Post #8 edited

 

Mention of KDG in Florence from A History of the 67th Field Regiment 1st Infantry Division who took over from 8th Army.
During the handover Florence was declared a "no fire" zone for Artillery and Armoured main armament.

446 Battery Commander along with the Intelligence Officer visited the forward troops at the Ponte Rossi (the bridge across the Mugnone).
They saw two Jeeps belonging to the Sappers. The owners were sniped when lifting mines and boobytraps from the crater which was once a bridge.
To rescue these trucks the KDG's Recce vehicle blazed away with a Besa and swung its 2 pounder into action.
The I.O said "He will fire his 2 pounder" BC 446 replied "They are not allowed to fire the 2 Bang!"
O.C 238 Field Coy and another officer, mounted onto the rear of the Recce Car and drove down to the Jeeps and under extensive covering fire
drove back in the Jeeps in reverse, at a great rate.
At least 200 civilians witnessed this party and cheered the actors.

I would much appreciate seeing any photos of Florence as it was taken over by 1st Division
and garrisoned by 2 Infantry Brigade. From which they advanced north to the Gothic Line.
I know Florence fairly well having worked there in the 70's
The 67th lost three officers and a Bombardier in La Pietra when the Survey Jeep struck a nest of Teller anti tank mines.
Blowing it over a 6ft wall.

 

Hi all, here's some of his records -



Thanks
James

 

Here is some of the Florence photos -

 

Tony - Good evidence for the class there thank you.

Gus - Very interested, yes please!

Owen - Another great diary, thank you. I've also now found the Derbyshire Yeomanry mentioned on his docs as well.

Uncle Target - Fascinating anecdotes.

Thanks all

 

Ah, I see he was KDG for the duration of the war & Warks Yeo afterwards.

 

Does he mention who the chap was that was killled at Cassino?

I ask because I am going there next Tue-Sat to guide a group. It would be good to tip my hat to him.

1 KDG were in the Cassino area for the First Battle. They were part of 23 Armoured Brigade and, at the time, were dismounted and operating as infantry. There role was to fill the gap between the Liri Valley where II (US) Corps were deployed in front of the monastery and the lower Garigliano where X (BR) Corps were preparing their massive Jan 44 river crossing operation.

Regards

Frank

 

Photos #16
I am 90%+ that they were all taken in the Piazza San Marco the church is the Basilica San Marco.
The Vehicles are crossing the Ponte Santa Trinita the only bridge across the Arno open for some time.
The buildings have all changed but rebuilt in a traditional design to look old.

See Sit Rep attached re KDG and Ponte Rosso mentioned in my previous posting.
Not far from the Piazza San Marco.
The British Army always had their own spelling for "foreign parts" in this case Rosso was Rossi.

Today we drink Vino Rosso (Red wine)