Help with Bayeux grave

Three men from 23rd Hussars in Bayeux War Cemetery:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/find-a-grave-prod/photos/2014/80/56273314_1395531172.jpg

Albert Cooper's death date is incorrect - he died on 4 Aug in the same incident as George Beresford. Alan Harrison's death date IS correct (6 Aug).

So....

Q1. Why do Beresford and Cooper appear on the same headstone?
and
Q2. Why is Harrison's grave butted against theirs when he died two days later?

Any help to solve this mystery would be greatly appreciated.

 

The joint grave is most likely a consequence of them being killed in the same vehicle and their remains not being separately recoverable or identifiable.
The proximity of the later grave may be due to a delay in the recovery of Beresford's and Cooper's remains which were then interred at the same time as Harrison in a common grave. Bayeux was operating as a cemetery while the fighting was going on, so this may be an example of a 'field' burial that's been preserved.

 

Thanks for that - though I am still puzzled. I should have given the full picture.

These are some of the 23H men Killed on the Perrier Ridge:

SURNAME GRAVE KIA
Greenwood F.14. 2 Aug
Haigh F.15. 4 Aug
Sives F.16. 4 Aug
Cull F.17. 4 Aug
Beresford F.18. 4 Aug
Cooper F.18. 4 Aug
Harrison F.18. 6 Aug

All those KIA on 4 Aug were in the same half-track which took a direct hit. It all makes sense until we get to the Beresford grave. If he and Cooper's remains couldn't be distinguished then surely they would have a 'collective' grave. Why put both on the same headstone?

(Sorry - can't get the columns to align)

 

I think the problem here is that you are looking at the dates of deaths and not the grave finals, which occurred in 1954.

Beresford Cooper and Harrison is marked as a collective grave.
Casualty Details

 

Now we know,Beresford Cooper and Harrison were buried in a collective grave.
so in theory three headstones should have been placed above as if only one was placed there would not be room to get all the inscriptions on.
As it was not known which man was which and they placed the headstones as
Beresford, Cooper, Harrison.
The chances of the head stones being above the right man are, yes all correct, no all are wrong or maybe one right.
If however they are buried as
Beresford
Cooper. Harrison. and two headstones used.
Then it is a 100% that one man is buried under the correct headstone.

 

Contact the commonwealth war graves commision with your query they are very helpful they are the ones who placed the headstones

 

Thanks men. I'll make further enquiries.

I still don't know why one man, Harrison, would be in a collective grave with two others who died two days earlier (Cooper died on the 4th, not the 6th) - and three miles distant.


C Sqr Panel, 23H ROH, Bridlington Priory.

 

I still don't know why one man, Harrison, would be in a collective grave with two others who died two days earlier (Cooper died on the 4th, not the 6th) - and three miles distant.

It does not matter which day the men died, it's when they arrived at the cemetery that counts.

These 11 men all died the same day.
Removed link as it does not appear to show correct information.
Yet two of them are buried in a different part of the cemetery.
This would suggest that they arrived after the part of the cemetery in which the other 9 are buried was completed.


Beresford, Cooper and Harrison. (Or parts of) all arrive at the cemetery the same day, maybe in the same lorry.
The burial party has to decide where to put the three men. now if there are only 2 spaces available in the plot for these men. Where does the third man go?

 

You said it yourself - "in a different part of the cemetery". Surely some consideration must have been given to the relatives of these men?

Incidentally - two of the other men who died on the 6th, in the same location, are buried in Banneville-La-Campagne (Danks' remains were never found).

 

You said it yourself - "in a different part of the cemetery". Surely some consideration must have been given to the relatives of these men?
Harkness, I did not say "in a different part of the cemetery". I left the question to you.
Consideration was given to the relatives, which is why Harrison was put in a collective grave to ensure that he remained with the men that he had trained and fought with.
However at the time of the burial's, it was not possible or the time to contact the relatives to ask their opinions on where the bodies should be placed. (The technology was not there).


Incidentally - two of the other men who died on the 6th, in the same location, are buried in Banneville-La-Campagne (Danks' remains were never found).
This information is irrelevant as we don't know the circumstances of their burials.

As CL1 says in #6
Contact the commonwealth war graves commision with your query they are very helpful they are the ones who placed the headstones.

 

And what consideration was given to the relatives of the two men who were deprived of their own headstones for no particular good reason?

Enough guesswork. I will talk to the people who know.

 

According to the original casualty list both Cooper and Harrison died on the 6th August 1944 and its these casualty lists the Army forwarded to the CWGC. Cull is also listed as 6th August 1944 too? The panel says 4th the CWGC say 6th as the Army casualty list does.
I don`t think who was under the stones was even considered at the time the headstones were commissioned it was three unrecognisable bodies ( recovered together from the same field grave?) but with identification showing who they had been. It is a collective grave but a collective graves size is not always dictated by the number of bodies it holds . From the photo it is not clear if there was actually room for a third headstone.

Bayeux War Cemetery was not made by the CWGC it was made by the British Army 2nd Army 32 GRU in the field of Monsieur Gautier. The first pressed metal crosses did not arrive until August 44 . The IWGC (then) arrived back in France on October 5th 1944 their task was to take stock of any damage to existing cemeteries from WW1. It was not until December 44 that they arrived at Bayeux their purpose was to advise the Army to enable the landscaping at a later date. During 1945 work was carried out by N0 39 GRU using local labour.

It will be interesting to see the CWGC reply bearing in mind they were not present when the original cemetery was prepared. Docs/Cas lists below

Kyle

 

Culls grave 6th August 1944 not 4th as the panel states ?

 

Thanks for that, Mr Jinks.

Cull was definitely Aug 4th, as was Cooper (I have other sources to confirm that date, including two eye-witnesses).

"Dear Mrs Cull,
I am afraid that I have very sad news for you as your son has been killed in action on August 4th. I felt I must write as soon as possible as I believe that official notification may be slightly delayed......"

I must correct you on one point - the three bodies (Beresford/Cooper/Harrison) could not have been recovered from the same field grave. As I mentioned above, Harrison was KIA 6 Aug, some three miles away, on the Perrier Ridge..


(The Story of the 23rd Hussars)

I've just realised that today is August 4th.

 

Cooper and Beresford `did` share a grave the pair were originally buried Nr Presles (concentration below) both unrecognisable and both buried originally as `unknowns` .
The Graves concentration for Harrison is not available. Dates of death with the CWGC are notoriously wrong but they had only the information the Army gave them ,irrespective of Regimental Histories and eye witness accounts they still quote this information and these dates are repeated on the original concentration document . Why butt Harrisons stone? Without the original concentration report the CWGC might not know. Time will tell

Kyle

 

Many thanks for that, Kyle.

My Dad helped to bury those men, his friends, on that evening of Aug 4th. They were 'blackened skeletons' but he knew which was Beresford because of his distinctive white teeth. I'm guessing that was insufficient evidence of his identity for the authorities.

Three days earlier in Le Beny Bocage, George Beresford asked Dad (who had, up to that point, been co-driver of the C Sqr ARV) if he'd like to swap places with one of the Echelon fittes, Stanley Cull. Dad declined. We know what happened next.

George Henry Beresford​