Help needed on Durham Light Infantry from D-Day landing and beyond

Discussion in 'Durham Light Infantry' started by Zunami, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Robert,

    The poster on FAG mentioned that they thought the original image may have came from a newspaper or magazine. Whoever left the photo would have to enlarge and descreen the Moire pattern from the original as these were very small pictures ? The photo the FAG poster found may have looked very different in its original form but the poster would have no knowledge of the original to compare with the image they found ? The interesting thing you have added is wherever the image originated it is likely to have been post war ,perhaps a `memorium` , because of the name change? Just some thoughts :)

    In relation to the memorial in Durham,is this the remembrance book in Durham Cathederal ? If so you are correct in your assumption that this was because of his DLI association/service.
    pg 9th august.jpg
    AUGUST 9th. 1944
    6 Pte. J.R. Maddison



    Kyle



     
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  2. Robert Bruce

    Robert Bruce Member

    Thanks for the additional info Kyle, definitely food for thought certainly the fact that it would have to be a memorium piece due to the later name change through marriage. It's very exciting to have the image which looks highly likely to be him. Particularly for his half-sister who along with us all has always been baffled why she never saw an image of him post childhood. Their mother died in 1977 so there was plenty of time for a picture to appear, especially as they have the official grave photo issued from Tilly. I'm just glad this image has come to light, it's opened other lines to pursue.

    I had to re-apply for his service records due to the covid shut down as I'm keen to explore the probability that he died in captivity being that he was originally buried at Beauvais whilst still under German command. I'll update the thread further when I have more info.

    It's nice that these brave young men are still being remembered.

    696C8C4D-7CC6-4882-8FF5-D3B3D9DCD856.jpeg

    Best
    Robert
     
  3. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Robert the grave marker confirms he `Died of Wounds` (D/W) I wonder if theres a German PoW Card for him ? WO 416 at the National Archives.

    Kyle
     
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  4. Robert Bruce

    Robert Bruce Member

    Thanks once again Kyle, didn't realise there's PoW cards held at the archives so will research that. This forum has been a huge help :)
     
  5. PaulE

    PaulE Senior Member

    Hi Robert ,

    I have just picked up the medals and other items to Pte Bernard Charles English who was also 6 DLI , 19 years old and KIA on 9th August 1944 . He was from Somerset and will almost certainly have ended up in the DLI as part of a reinforcement draft as will Bobby . From the Army numbers of both Bernard and Bobby they both originally enlisted in the Royal Artillery and will have been part of a draft from the RA converted to Infantry and posted to the DLI .

    It is most likely Bernard was killed during the attack south of Le Plessis Grimault near the village of La Cannardiere , the Bn reports 2 Officers and 7 other ranks KIA with 3 of the wounded later dying of wounds . Many thanks Kyle for the photo of the Memorial book in the DLI Chapel in Durham Cathedral .
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  6. Cpl Hadaway

    Cpl Hadaway Active Member

    These men both have eight figure General Service Corps numbers, not RA.

    The number for Pte Maddison, 14654822, seems to have lost a digit somewhere in the CWGC system, they have the erroneous number '1465822': the number in the photo is definitely eight digits. This is confirmed by the casualty lists and the grave concentration doc.

    These are known other DLI casualties who would have been in the same training draft:

    Maddison, Pte John Robert, 14654822, 6 DLI.
    Reported died of wounds, NW Europe, 9/8/44.
    Died 9/8/44, serving with 6 DLI, aged 19. Son of Gerald Bates Maddison and Francis Josephine Maddison, of Iron Bridge, Shropshire. Tilly-sur-Seulles War Cemetery, France, V D 11.
    Army number erroneously '1465822' on CWGC database.

    Rochell, Pte D, 14654838, 8 DLI.
    Originally enlisted General Service Corps.
    Reported wounded, NW Europe, 4/10/44.
    Reported wounded, 2/5/45, serving with 9th Bn Cameronians.

    Stevenson, Pte J J, 14654844, 9 DLI.
    Reported wounded, NW Europe, 4/9/44.

    And here are two known DLI casualties who would have been in the same training draft as Pte England:

    Clifford, Pte C E, 14590256, 8 DLI.
    Originally enlisted General Service Corps.
    Reported wounded, NW Europe, 19/6/44.

    England, Pte Bernard Charles, 14590269, 6 DLI.
    Reported died of wounds, NW Europe, 9/8/44.
    Died 9/8/44, serving with 6 DLI, aged 19. Son of Charles G and Kate G England, of Shepton Beauchamp, Somerset. Hottot-les-Bagues War Cemetery, France, V B 6.

    Godwin, Pte H G, 14590279, 10 DLI.
    Reported wounded, NW Europe, 12/7/44.
     
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  7. Robert Bruce

    Robert Bruce Member

    Thanks all, any additional info helps. Most important piece will be the service records I'm waiting for, will update in due course.

    Re the Service No error (the number 4 has been left out) on JR Maddison gravestone I do recall my late father contacted CWGC in 1970s/1980s to see if a correction could be made but can't remember if he ever got a response. My inclination is not to concern myself as it's been that way for over 70yrs, just another part of Bobby's story.
     
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  8. PaulE

    PaulE Senior Member

    I took the numbers from Brian Davis's book but forgot about the second allocation of numbers !! ;)

    Thanks for the additional info .
     
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  9. Cpl Hadaway

    Cpl Hadaway Active Member

    Yes, if it's been that way for so long, maybe best left as is. But just be aware that that early transcription error may have spread out over various archive sources, complicating further research. So always best to input both numbers.

    Attached the relevant documents with the correct 'long' number: grave concentration from from CWGC and the War Office casualty report.


    MaddisonPteJRgraveconcentration.JPG MaddisonPteJRcasreport.jpg
     
  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    In regards to the service number it`s an error and should be corrected , The number 1465822 is a Royal Artillery number from 1938 and belongs to Gnr Lawrence Arthur Burt . 14654822 belongs to Pte J R Maddison .
    GBM_ROYALART_1465601-1466600_00030burt.jpg

    Kyle
     
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  11. Cpl Hadaway

    Cpl Hadaway Active Member

    Yes, simple transcription error on the part of the CWGC that's stayed in their system. There's plenty of these in the War Office casualty lists, but these are almost always corrected in later casualty lists. The CWGC errors tend to stay there until spotted by someone decades later. Here's another I've come across recently

    Wood, Pte James, 14658590, 9 DLI.
    Reported killed in action, NW Europe, 12/8/44.
    Died 12/8/44, serving with 9 DLI, aged 19. Son of Frederick and Jane Isabella Wood, of Jarrow, Co Durham. Banneville-la-Campagne War Cemetery, France, XVI B 30.
    Army number incorrectly recorded as '4658590' by CWGC.

    Not surprising there's still errors turning up given the sheer number of casualties they had to record--and all this before the computer era.
     
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  12. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    CWGC register for Pte Maddison will be amended (within 24 hrs) to show his correct number. The headstone is to be replaced but there is no timescale due to the current world wide situation. (Covid???)


    Kyle
     
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  13. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    From CWGC today

    "Thank you for contacting the CWGC."

    "I have amended casualty's service number (14658590) accordingly. Please allow 24 hours for the amendment to show on our website"



    Kyle
     

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