Local bikes nicked by soldiers returning from a spree most likely. Why throw a perfectly good bike you could sell for drinking money into a pond except to hide it?
Hi I've posted a pic of the camp in particularly where I'm sure was the location of the assault course according to an account of it I found on the net. The 'S' is the start and 'F' finish in the quarry. Assault Course commencing with a 20 ft high obstacle constructed with wooden scaffold poles lashed together forming 4 ft squares, that had to be scaled then dropping into the first of the lakes, being assailed at all times with thunder flashes hurled by enthusiastic and sadistic instructors, and while actually crossing the lake, being subjected to slabs of guncotton being detonated all around and shouts from our tormentors “Get a move on!” on reaching the far side one encountered the first culvert approx. 2 ft square, and about twenty feet long, through which we had to crawl, it was very claustrophobic, made worse by having your face close to the heels of the bloke in front of you, at the end there was a drop of about 4ft directly into the next lake taking a miracle contortion to contrive somehow to keep your rifle dry once again whilst crossing lake number two subjected to the same torment, this time however exiting by way of clambering up the bank running down the slope, bypassing the third lake, over an area criss-crossed with tripwires to a 10ft wall which had to be overcome, this being accomplished section by section, the first man arriving at the wall, leaning back to the wall, cupping his hands in front of himself thus forming a stepping stone, i.e. the rest of the section climbing by means of hands, shoulders, and over, the stepping stone then being pulled up by means of his rifle continuing downhill to an area I can best describe as a slurry pit, to facilitate crossing this, there were four inch rails perched on top of posts clear of the mud requiring confidence and a keen sense of balance to run over, otherwise wading through and being faced with a big scrub-up clearing this, continuing on, trip-wires and other obstacles on the way, such as a 9ft ditch which had to be jumped, and just to make sure that we put in the required effort, coils of barbed wire were spread all over the bottom moving on, two 10ft walls about 15ft apart had to be crossed by means of two cables, shoulder width apart stretched between them to be crawled over, again using one man as a stepping stone to reach top of first wall running on to encounter what was known as triple Danart, an obstruction which consisted of three large coils of barbed wire, one placed on top of two, to be crossed, with the first man of the section (taskman) literally throwing himself onto the obstacle holding his rifle in two hands across in front of his face for protection, this to allow the rest of the section to pass over, the last man over was to peel the taskman from the obstacle, sometimes being very painful carrying on we would arrive at the far side of the lake which had to be crossed using two cables about 4ft apart, one above the other stretched over the lake, resulting in a few soakings continuing on, back up the slope to encounter a wire mesh fence to negotiate, then being immediately faced with a drop of about 30ft, to be descended by means of abseiling to what turned out to be the target end of a fifty yard rifle range, across which we had to crawl whist live M.G fire was directed on fixed lines overhead, then double to the firing point, where the armourer was waiting to make sure your rifle barrel was clear by application of a clearing rod and pull-through. Then, being issued with five rounds to be fired from the prone position at the now exposed targets, bearing in mind that this whole operation had been carried out in the fastest possible time, it was surprising that any of us could even hit the flipping target next, double back to cleaning area to get off the worst of the accumulated mud and slush before collecting some dry clothing and proceeding to the ablutions hut for a shower, then taking your denims to the drying room, then back to wash out the rest of your clothing. I've been told Great Pond (top left) was used as rope work but there are concrete bases which once had posts on the Miller's Pond bank (pic below). All the trails in the pic have long since grassed over and the quarry has grown since though stone is no longer mined. I've also marked on the overhead pic the location of the trapeze and two of the buildings seen in the pic, the fuselage in front of the long row of garages and the five trees in the 'now' pic. This is probably the largest item left from the camp. You can see the Park Visitor Centre top right but from the path you'd miss this original fence. I was told by Ray and Betty, volunteer rangers whom I see regularly, made sure the working rangers knew exactly what the fence was and never removed it. Ray and Betty would like the Natural Trust to recognise the camp more in remembrance of those brave men who passed through it. Ray remembers, as a kid, playing on a tank near the Hall used for battle tactics. Glen
Hi Had a walk round the other day and I think I've found the location of the jumping tower. You can see the circle for the balloon jump and to the right the shadow of the jumping tower. Had a walk into the field and the flat area you can see break the lines in the pic below is roughly where the tower would have been. As I was there a pick-up pulled up on the road, I didn't scarper, a young chap came over to me and after telling him what I was looking for he took me back into the field as he said there was a huge lump of concrete where the balloon was tethered to but unfortunately he couldn't locate it. He was the landowner's son and his dad was in the pick-up. We had a good chat. He mentioned the plough hits the concrete and over the years has found bombs in the fields. Apparently Hardwick was bombed with incendiaries that just rolled off the lead roof. At the left of the overhead is a vertical hedge which is the line of the River Doe Lea and just to the right you can see three dark circles close together. This was the purpose built sewerage works for the camp. It is now overgrown with nothing to see apart from uncovered pipes being used by badgers. Glen
Hi again I posted an account of the assault course earlier and here are a few pics of where I think the course ran. Pics from Sept last year. The first of the Row Ponds to cross. The Ice House is to the left. Through the twenty foot culvert and drop into the next pond. Out of the pond and head towards the trees. Trees were not there then. They'd have all sorts of obstacles to overcome. Towards the camera avoiding 'enemy' sheep! Again, trees in the background were not there. I reckon they came down the slope here onto the road from the Park Centre to the Row Ponds. I'll add a few more later.
Geoffrey Read relates his experience of running the obstacle course. He lost me towards the end ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/69/a8611869.shtml Regards...
Thanks Cee A few more pics of where I'm sure the assault course ran: Down the road to the Park Visitor Centre. Past the original fencing near Miller's Pond. This is the other side of Miller's Pond in the car park with the Visitor Centre to the right. Rangers have said there are concrete foundations on the island. And on the opposite side of the pond are these concrete bases which maybe for the rope work across the pond. Cheers
This is a scan of a plan of the camp which was in the folder I borrowed from the Centre. It was a photocopy and needed tidying up a bit in Paint. I don't know who drew it and as it says Camp disused I'm guessing it's from the late 1950s.
Hi Another view of the concrete bases on the bank of Miller's Pond. I was there on Friday and one of the Rangers told me a visitor told him there was a zip-line down to the pond and recruits shot at the tree in the pic which was living at the time. He even said it had bullet holes in it! Seems a bit far fetched! I had a look and noticed two more concrete bases parallel to the others. This is taken on the path opposite the Visitor Centre car park. Been there today and found two lumps of ceramic covered concrete. I've walked the field many times and things are uncovered by weather and cattle. Plans were obviously drawn up for all the camps built during WW2. Does anyone know if these are available anywhere? Cheers.
Hi Cleaned up a row of red bricks left in place I'm assuming because the tree was so close when the camp was dismantled. A Ranger told me a local told him one of the camp huts was rebuilt near the school in the small nearby village of Stainsby. Had a wonder over a few weeks ago and took a few pics. The hut is in the grounds of the now unused school. I'm not certain it was a camp building but as it stands on rows of red bricks it could be. I'm hoping to find someone who knows something about it. I don't know what kind of huts the soldiers stayed in. I've read about Bell tents and Nissan huts. The overhead photo shows rectangular buildings. Cheers
Hi Photo above did say Millers Pond but there wouldn't have been trees at the top of the slope so I went to Great Pond and compared it and clearly was Great Pond. You can see the trees, paths on the slope, the fence and part of the semi-circle stone sluice gate. On the old photo I'm sure the white fence at the top of the slope is the line of the obstacle course and there is also a building which seems to appear on the overhead photo.
Hi again Ranger called me over the other week and said he'd pulled out something from the Park Centre loft that I'd be interested in. It just happened to be the display photo board used in 2004. I borrowed up, cleaned it up and took my own photos so now they are much clearer than the others I posted. Still trying to work out where the Log Training took place (if it was Hardwick?)
Glen, I think I have the log training location. Thank you for the clearer photos above ... Edit: Replaced using the better quality log training photo.
Glen, Here's an approximation of the Trapeze location which is close by the log training area. I removed your red markings as best I could so if the trapeze extends outside of area "X" it won't show on the aerial. Regards ...
Hi Cee I think you're right with the log training. Those trees are still there as I mentioned a few posts ago. And the Trapeze is exactly where I got it, there is no question. The clearer pics show faces of these guys, it would be great if names could be put to faces. Glen
Hi If you look at the Log Training location overhead pic that Cee posted, roughly where the letter A is a hole appeared about this time last year. This is taken from the track from the Park Centre to the Row Ponds. You would have stood on the garage forecourt. Hole has at least two concrete lined walls and red bricks dumped in. I suppose it could be described as a 'sink hole'. I've included pics of the 'newish' Park walk guide which now has the Para symbol where the camp was. It is a bit deceiving as I've known visitors have visited just to see the camp and arrive to see a 'field'. Map doesn't highlight where the airfield was. I spoke to a local guy of 65 the other day who knew about the camp but laughed when I mentioned the airfield. There are so many locals who don't know what was happening on their doorstop during the 40s and 50s. And as for the Para day on May 15th, the Natural Trust do not promote it so many locals will be wondering why there were parachutists dropping and the Dakota flying over Hardwick. Worst of all the commemoration stone is locked away in the old car park to be seen one day a year. Bloody shameful! I cancelled my Natural Trust membership when I found out. Laters!!
Glen, Have you ever heard tell of a demo platoon being connected to Hardwick Hall. You can see them marching in a Wings for Victory parade in Chesterfield (1943) on this page in the gallery. http://www.nottinghampost.com/training-Paras-Hardwick-Hall-dropping-bloody-hell/story-15294463-detail/story.html#4 The officer in front is Captain Jim Webber leading a platoon of paratroopers. My Father claims to have been part of this group. Otherwise I can't find any mention of a demo platoon anywhere and this is the only site that shows a poor quality photo of them. It could be they used the photo in the article because it was taken nearby in Chesterfield. Regards ...
Hi Cee Found the pic last year after an internet search. It's in front of the Town Hall. Never heard of the 'demo' platoon. I assume demonstration. Does that mean showing officials and public what the Airborne Forces were for? In the folder I borrowed from the centre was an account from Elizabeth Harvey dated May 9th 2010 about her late husband, Eric Harvey. In 2007 my husband Eric Harvey, who was then 86, recorded reminiscences of his war years. Unfortunately Eric died Jan 2008. His voice on the recordings is not always clear due to a stroke some years previously, for this reason I am writing his memories out. He seems to have been at Hardwick Hall first in the autumn of 1944 and then in 1945, though all he has recorded about being there are the following anecdotes. Sadly I didn't get chance to go through these with him to see if we could bring any further details back to his mind. By 1944 Eric was a lieutenant in the Oxford and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, airborne division, stationed at Bulford camp, Salisbury Plain. “...they put me in charge of the office, doing administration, that's when I got really fed up of looking on. One communication that came through to the headquarters desk was 'wanted, volunteers to train as parachutists', so I asked Major Howard if I could apply and he said yes”. Eric's Major in the Ox and Bucks, Major Howard, famous for leading the spear head in to France on D-day — portrayed by Richard Todd in the film 'The Longest Day', volunteered for parachute training too. “I was sent to Grantham, then on to Hardwick Hall near Chesterfield, Derbyshire. The site was in the grounds of the big house. Here we did some tough initial training then were sent to Ringway airport, Manchester to practice parachuting. On my very first jump, which was from a basket under a barrage balloon, I caught a cross wind and landed awkwardly, breaking my ankle, dam it. This put me out of action for a while.” Creased after being 65 years in a cardboard box the jacket Eric has on in the photograph of him. The following must have been when Eric's ankle was better. “Back at Hardwick I was now to be working between there and Ringway for quite a long time. I was put in charge of groups of trainee Paratroopers, about 30 at a time. They trained first at Hardwick, and then on to Ringway airport where I parachuted with them from both barrage balloons and Dakotas.” “The huts we slept in at Hardwick were very small, I was in with a Scottish officer, I can't just remember what they called him, it was one of those nicknames all Scot's men get given — it wasn't Jock. Anyway he played the bagpipes, though fortunately not when I was trying to rest.” “A small thing I remember that happened at Hardwick was one of the blokes said to me, 'if there's anything you need I can get it for you'. He got me a nice Swan fountain pen, I only had it about a week and it disappeared, so I thought to myself — now I know how he gets all these things, he was a bit of a spiv.” “Hardwick was where a chap, one of the blokes (think Eric means a private) said to me, 'I've got a sack full of P38 pistols, do you want to buy one?' He'd come back over the channel with this sack full of P38s.” (This seems incredible but unfortunately Eric gives no more details of how the private got the guns.) “He was asking £10 a time and I bought one”. (£10 would have been considerably more than a week's pay). “I was amazed how you could take it all apart, in to about 25 pieces, which I did, cleaned it, and put it together again. I then thought I'd better try it to see if it works, so I took it out and shot at a tree, it worked fine that was all I wanted to do, so I sold it for £10 the same as I bought it for.” “I don't know where I got a pushbike from but I used to cycle back to Derby to see Margaret, (Eric's first wife) about 25 miles, I'd go through Tibshelf — through coal mining towns. I remember once riding in to that place beginning with R (Ripley?) North of Derby. I was going south in to the town, it was up hill and the bike was stuck in top gear so I got off and was walking — a lorry was passing me — I thumbed him and he stopped and asked 'what's wrong with your bike?' I told him and he realized that going uphill in top gear – you can't do it, so he told me to put my bike in the back behind him and climb in the cab.” “On a different day when cycling home, to keep cool, I'd tucked my red beret under my epaulet. About half way home, at Swanwick, Alfreton a little way before Ripley, I used to pass a prisoner of war camp, this day I was riding rather fast, helped by the bike having a three speed. A sergeant major came flying down after me from this camp on a motor bike. He thought I was a prisoner escaping. At that time I was an officer with two pips, as soon as the sergeant major got along side me I think he got a shock to see that I was not only British but was an officer, he turned and went back.” (The camp was the one that Franz von Werra, the only German prisoner-of-war in Britain to escape and return to his homeland, escaped from as told in 'The One That Got Away' played by Hardy Kruger.) “It was at Hardwick Hall I got to know another chap, he was called Fitz something, it wasn't Fitz-Herbert, I'll remember later. He'd got a very powerful, Prussian Imperia motor bike, twin cylinder, about 1000 cc. He had me driving this up the road and my god it didn't half go. It was just a motorbike with these two 500 cc engines. The gearbox was very dicky though, so I wasn't keen on riding it, but I got it back in one piece OK. Later on Fitz was given another motorbike just the same, so despite the dicky gearbox, I tried to talk him in to selling me one of them, but he wouldn't.” There is no village of Hardwick, therefore Eric must have drawn out the ten shillings, (50p) from his Post Office savings book at a Post Office on site. The Rangers didn't know anything about it so I don't know where Elizabeth was from or if she is still with us but these stories need sharing. Cheers
Glen, Thank you for the wonderful anecdotes of Eric Harvey during his time at the Hardwick Hall Depot as provided by his wife Elizabeth! With regard the Demo Platoon I thought it may just be Battalion confined but according to my father, Harry, it was more than that. He wrote in a letter to my brother. "I went into the Paras, into the 7th L.I. Bn, Para. Regt. I was also picked for the Demonstration Platoon of all the Airborne Forces, we demonstrated all battle drill for everybody. I finally went back to my Battalion at Bulford Camp down south." When he attended a reunion at Aldershot in 1972 he met up with Jim Webber who later sent him a few parade photos as requested of what Jim called the "old Demo Pl.". It may not have a Hardwick Hall connection but it seems the platoon were together for a time before returning to their Battalion. Regards ...
Demo Platoon Theory It just occurred to me that the natural home for a platoon that demonstrated battle drill would be the Battle School which was part of the Hardwick Hall Depot until it moved in early 1944. According to ParaData: "In March 1944 the Battle School closed, the Holding Unit was moved to Clay Cross, while a new preliminary Battle/Tactical School was set up at Dore and Totley." My father finished his Ringway course on March 8, 1943 so the photos were probably taken after that date. Both Jim Webber and my father were with A Coy, 7 Para at the time of D-Day. There is a possibility the platoon was mixed with men from other Airborne units as well. Here's another photo of them passing dignitaries outside the Chesterfield Town Hall going in the other direction. Perhaps a different occasion, not sure? Regards ... Edit: Corrected date
