Belated Happy New Years to you all. I'm hoping some insight might be provided regarding the attached photograph. It was kindly shared by the family of Winston Ploeg. Here's some background on Winston: Born 1914 in Sultan Washington USA he was raised in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Winston served in the Permanet Active Miltia from 1931 to 1938 before leaving Halifax to enlist in the 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment February 1939. Serving in 'D' Company Winston was safely evacuated from Dunkirk May 31/June 1 1940. Transferred to the RCA January 1941 serving in England & selected for Officer Training. Commissioned Lieutenant RCA August 1943 serving in the Italian Campaign & finishing the war in Northwest Europe. Resigned his Commission September 1946, reverted to the ranks & continued to serve in the RCA until his retirement in 1966, RSM of his Regiment. Medals - 1939-45 Star, Italy Star, France/Germany Star, Defence Medal, CVSM with Clasp, War Medal & Canadian Medal for Long Service & Good Conduct. Winston passed away December 17, 1982 Richmond, BC age 68. Still some gaps to fill on his service (during & post war) but his family is sorting through his paper work for additional details. I'm hoping what I did provide might assist to id these soldiers for the family - not individually of course. Winston is 4th row, 4th from the right. Of the 96 men featured, 76 are wearing similar headgear. Might this be the RCA unit Winston was serving with at the time or could it be a photo from his Officer's Training Course? I do not recognize their headgear. According to his family Winston was away from Canada for seven years returning home in 1946 so I'm assuming the photo was taken in the UK probably 1942/43. Somewhere within the forum I came across a post regarding Sgt. Freddy Harris Queen's Own Rifles KIA June 6, 1944 Juno Beach. I first learned of Sgt Harris in Blake Healthcote's book 'Testaments of Honour' which featured a couple of photographs of the young man. The reason I mention this, the chap 2nd row from the bottom, far right looks very much like Fred Harris in my opinion. It probably isn't but it's confusing the heck out of me as to why these two men might be in this photograph - perhaps Harris was serving as an Instructor, I dunno. Any thoughts are welcome & as always - thanks in advance. Cheers, Dave
Hello Dave, White bands on side caps and epaulettes denote officer cadets, but I don't know where the Officer Cadet Training Unit (OCTU) was for the RCA. Regards, Richard.
Thank you so much for this, I appreciate it. How long was the cadet training & was it similar in length for Infantry & Armour candidates? Based on your info, maybe that is Fred Harris in the photo. From my understanding he too had been recommended for Officer training but turned it down in order to stay with his men. At this time (I'm thinking early 1943) perhaps he was an Instructor on this particular course. Here is Fred's record from Canada's Virtual War Memorial: http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/Detail/2059230?Frederick%20Bernard%20Harris As you'll see, if nothing else Sgt Harris & the chap in the photo certainly look alike. Thanks again Richard.
I’ve done a bit of searching and found that the Canadian OCTU was at Havannah Barracks, Bordon from August 1940 to March 1942. It was built to a standard design known as the Sandhurst Block which I’m sure is the type of building shown in your picture. The last Passing-Out parade, before the transfer of the OCTU to Canada, took place on the 7th March 1942. More details here: Passing-out ceremony, eighth course, Canadian Officer Cadet Training Unit, 7 Mar 42. Transfer of Canadian O.C.T.U. to Canada. It seems to have been a sixteen week course. More details of the Canadian OCTU here: Closing Exercises, Second Course - Canadian O.C.T.U. Yes, I agree it does look like Freddy Harris. Without his record of service it may be difficult to check if he served there. However there is a War Diary for the Canadian Training School, of which the OCTU was a part, for Jan – Apr 1942, WO 179/1615. There is a slight chance that he may be mentioned in it. Regards, Richard.
Once again Richard, I thank you. I'm now thinking the photo must have been taken in Canada as August 8, 1943 was the date listed as when Winston was commissioned as a Lieutenant in the RCA. I'll see if his family was able to locate additional info. Thank you again. Dave
Dave, The Havannah Barracks was renamed the Prince Philip Barracks in 1984. The features of the building in your group photo are similar to the barracks as it still stands today in Bordon. Also the thread you mentioned on Sgt. Freddy Harris: SERGEANT F.B.HARRIS of the Queens Own Rifles of CANADA - WW2Talk Regards...
I knew I had come across a post here on Sgt Harris. Thank you for that & also for the photo/info on Havannah Barracks. I've recently read that after the OCTU courses were transferred to Canada, some courses shorter in duration remained the UK - perhaps this is the case here for Winston. I do have documents provided by the family that list Aug 7, 1943 as the date of his commission as well as their belief he did not return to Canada until after the war. Also, not to harp on the subject of Sgt Harris being in this photo but I believe he too never returned to Canada after the Queen's Own Rifles arrived in England July 1941 (prior to his death on D-Day) - should that prove to be him. I'll keep you posted if Winston's family find anything else. You've all been very helpful. I have attached a shot of Winston (on the right) & an unidentified chap taken in 1945. Cheers, Dave
Dave, A very interesting photo. The men in the background are working on radioplanes which were used as target drones in anti-aircraft practice. The officer to the left appears to be wearing a khaki drill (KD) uniform. His cap badge isn't very distinct but could be RCAF or RAF - not sure, however, if that would fit with the KD summer dress? Hopefully some other opinions will come along. Regards ...
The cap badge of the officer on the left looks very much like Royal Artillery (RCA use the same badge). Air force officers wear rings on their cuffs to denote rank, not pips. Winston looks as if he is wearing the Artillery “Grenade” cap badge. Artillery makes sense as these radioplanes were used as targets for Anti-Aircraft Gunners. Regards, Richard.
Richard, that makes a heck of a lot more sense than my suggestion ... My first thought was that they were in Canada somewhere, by the ocean or on one of the Great Lakes. So far an account of these radioplanes if used by the Canadian military has eluded me. Regards ...
Point Petre Artillery Range One very good possibility for the location would be Camp Picton with it's nearby artillery range at Point Petre overlooking Lake Ontario and in use since 1938. The Camp was taken over by the Canadian Army for use as the Royal Canadian School of Artillery (Anti-Aircraft) sometime after the war. I came across the attached anecdote in the book, Camp Picton: A Storied 70 Years in a Canadian Military Training Camp by Joanne Courneya-Fralick. The problem here is with the dates, but at least we know radio controlled drones were used as anti-aircraft targets over a large body of water in post-war Canada. While looking into Point Petre it's easy to get waylaid by the Avro Arrow and Velvet Glove programs. Regards ...
This is great stuff Cee & Richard! Returning to Canada Winston was indeed based at Picton, Ont. I have attached Winston's Canadian Army [active] Certificate of Service from October 1947 after he resigned his commission & reverted to the ranks. Despite date listed on photo, 1946 seems likely. Thanks again, Dave
