Greiz (Friedhof) Thuringen - grave/cemetery photo request

Discussion in 'War Grave Photographs' started by Ravrick, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Ravrick

    Ravrick Senior Member

    Hi,
    if any forum member lives nearby or is planning to visit the area of Greiz in Thüringen I would appreciate a photo of the Hungarian memorial tablets near the graves as a British soldier (L/Sgt Hoodless Robinson KIA 17.04.45) is buried among them and to date is listed as 'missing'

    The link to the cemetery is

    Greiz (Friedhof), Thüringen - Onlineprojekt Gefallenendenkmäler

    If I can prove he is buried there then it will be possible to have a CWGC headstone erected.

    Cheers,
    Rick
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Just for info but interesting hes noted on the Dunkirk memorial for a death in 1945 ???

    Hes not a young man
    UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
    Name: Hoodless Robinson
    Age: 43
    Birth Date: abt 1902
    Death Date: 17 Apr 1945
    Cemetery: The Dunkirk Memorial
    Burial Country: France
    Father: Christopher Robinson
    Mother: Margaret Ann Robinson
    Regimental Number: 2649264
    Region or Memorial: Memorial Register

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Hoodless Robinson
    Given Initials: H
    Rank: Lance Serjeant
    Death Date: 17 Apr 1945
    Number: 2649264
    Birth Place: Northumberland
    Residence: Northumberland
    Regiment at Enlistment: Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: France and Belgium Campaign, 1939/40
    Regiment at Death: Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: H Robinson
    Rank: Lance Serjeant
    Army Number: 2649264
    Regiment: Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
    POW Number: 14
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: VIII-C
    Camp Location: Konin Zaganski, Poland
    Record Office: Infantry and Army Educational Corps Record Office, York
    Record Office Number: 20

    TD
     
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  3. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Well spotted you ! Surely even if his actual grave cannot be located he's entitled to a " known to be buried in this cemetery " headstone
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    It also begs the question if he was 'shot' on the Death March from Lamsdorf (Stalag 344) why do you need a "photo of the Hungarian memorial tablets " as the march went no where near Hungary??

    Confused TD
     
  6. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    I have two people I know near there trying to get there soon
     
  7. Ravrick

    Ravrick Senior Member

    Hi TD,
    he was admitted to a Hungarian military hospital in the area, where he later died, hence he is buried among the Hungarians. He is recorded as dying of a stomach ailment, which may or may not be a cover up for being shot. Either way he is on the memorial at Dunkirk and if he is buried here he should have a CWGC headstone..
    Rick
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Thats good - I was just confused about how he was on the 'Long/Death March" across Poland/Germany and possibly Czech and yet he ended up in Hungary, - thats some distance to cover in the weather conditions of winter/spring 1945 in his medical condition

    TD
     
  9. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    The CWGC have always had a policy of not leaving "British" casualties in German civil graveyards.Instead after both world wars,casualties were reinterned in concentrated cemeteries by agreement with the German governments of the time.....there was the odd exception such the grave of the defender of Calais,Claude Nicholson who died while a POW during WW2 and is buried in a civilian cemetery and has been left undisturbed at the request of his family.

    Without doubt if it can be proved that a grave at Greiz is that of Hoodless Robinson,the CWGC will undertake the transfer of his remains to an appropriate British military cemetery.Failing that if the proof of evidence is that he lies somewhere in the cemetery,then there is the likelihood that the CWGC will erect a marker tombstone at a place in the cemetery, usually just inside the cemeterey entrance inscribed "Known to be buried in this cemetery"or "Buried elsewhere within this cemetery".....sometimes the inscription "Their/His glory shall not be blotted out" is added"

    If this is the case then the Dunkirk Memorial inscription to Hoodless Robinson will be removed.

    Its not unusual to see casualties without a known grave to be commemorated on a dedicated memorial to the missing, many miles from where a casualty was last accounted for.The Lancastria unknowns off St Nazaire are remembered on the Dunkirk Memorial.Another example is to the unknowns of the Royal Navy with the RN memorials at Portsmouth,Plymouth and Chatham etc.
     
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  10. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Also on main thread
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    The fact that Hoodless Robinson is recorded on this cemetery plaque may reveal further evidence of a grave location.Accepting that the local administrative authority may have been in turmoil at the closing stages of the war,there is a chance that there might be some record of the burial taking place locally.

    The other point was that Thuringen was in the Soviet zone of occupation and ultimately part of the DDR. Therefore it was very difficult to obtain the help immediately after the war that is usual for access to locate, investigate and identify graves of Allied servicemen.The situation changed after the the fall of communism in 1989 and German unification was later enacted. Access to East Germany then became possible as the former regime was drawn into the EU as a part of Germany.

    (I remember a documentary on two sisters who were looking for the grave of their brother, a young RAF casualty who was eventually found found lying in an unkempt East Germany civilian cemetery....not sure who did the groundwork on the case but casualty was,I believe, transferred to the main Berlin CWGC War Cemetery.One distinct feature of the documentary was the personal memories of the sisters regarding their brother.Apparently he was always singing Paperdoll which a very popular song during the war....quiet a moving documentary.)

    Pressure on the government authorities by relatives and others to achieve closure on the whereabouts of a casualty's grave can play dividends but I have to say it is difficult to understand how the CWGC have missed closure in this case, particular since it is over 25 years ago that reunification of Germany took place.
     
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  12. Ravrick

    Ravrick Senior Member

    Thanks Guys,
    I have written to the CWGC and keep the thread updated,
    cheers,
    Rick
     
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  13. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Anything yet
     
  14. Ravrick

    Ravrick Senior Member

    Hi, I have been in constant contact with the CWGC, their last reply dated 24th August 2020 is:
    Good afternoon Mr Jones
    I am writing with reference to my email dated 14 August 2020 written before I went on annual leave.
    I have received an email from our contact in NEA who have heard back from the Regional Supervisor who is planning a trip to Germany in September this year and will include a visit to this cemetery, of course providing the corona measures allow it.
    I hope this will be reassure you and I will set a reminder to check in with our area office to get a progress report from them about the visit.
    Thank you once again for bringing this gentleman to our attention and your continuing patience.
    Kind regards
    Maria Choules
    Records Section.

    So it looks like work in progress, albeit slow work!

    I will give it a little while and get back to them again,
    cheers,
    Rick
     
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  15. chester

    chester Member

    Ravrick, I am Chairman of The Fusiliers Association (Northumberland) and would be grateful if you could keep me updated on this.
     
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