Can anyone help me find the full name of the British soldier buried in the grave in the attached photo? The photo is from the area along the French-German border, near the Maginot Line Fortress of Hackenberg (east of the Thionville-Metz area). The writing on the cross is - Norman ….., von Regt “Gordon Highlanders”, gef. am 13.5.40 im Heywald. To me this means, the soldier was a member of the Gordon Highlanders Regiment of the 51st Highland Division. He died on May 13, 1940 in combat action during one of the German Army’s diversionary attacks conducted along the Maginot in the first days of the French campaign. He was buried by German soldiers, which was not an uncommon practice on either side along this part of the front. Request help from anyone who can help complete Norman’s name, his rank, and perhaps closer identify his unit of assignment (e.g., battalion and company). Any other info would certainly be appreciated. Thanks in advance! Regards, Marc
Only two Gordon's are recorded on CWGC as dying on that day-Neither are called Norman though. 001 CAMPBELL J 2879358 5TH BN 13/05/1940 GORDON HIGHLANDERS 002 MCCALLUM W 2881197 5TH BN 13/05/1940 GORDON HIGHLANDERS
It could be one of these two chaps though: 001 DUNCAN N 75278 5TH BN 14/05/1940 GORDON HIGHLANDERS 002 MILNE N 2873909 5TH BN 15/05/1940 GORDON HIGHLANDERS Reading the descriptions of both cemeteries doen't help narrow it down. Duncan is the only CWGC burial in his cemetery which ties in with the picture and the Milne cemetery had lots of service personal buried there in the 1950's from single and or isloated graves so they could be better looked after. Cheers Andy
Heyd is a village in Belgium and Wald is Forest. The appears to be a forest south of Heyd on google earth. None of the 4 men listed are near to this location. I would think the next best thing is to try and ascertain what is the nearest cemetery to this location.
Drew / MLW Duncan would be my guess as his is the only grave in a communal cemetery - difficult to say though as the CWGC were pretty good at collecting all remains for interring in their cemetery's -but if it's well looked after - then they might have left it not knowing the name either at the time.....very difficult ! Cheers
Hi Tom.....I thought Duncan too at first but he's buried in Luxembourg and if that is the location beneath the date of death it would point to Belgium. I checked to see if there is a CWGC cemetery/graves in Heyd but it showed zero returns. As Geoff said the other day it doesn't mean there isn't a cemetery as they only list cemeteries containing more than 20 CWGC casualties I think. I think the next step assuming the location is correct is try and ID the nearest cemetery and look at who's buried there. Cheers Andy
Hi Tom.....I thought Duncan too at first but he's buried in Luxembourg and if that is the location beneath the date of death it would point to Belgium. I checked to see if there is a CWGC cemetery/graves in Heyd but it showed zero returns. As Geoff said the other day it doesn't mean there isn't a cemetery as they only list cemeteries containing more than 20 CWGC casualties I think. Cheers Andy Does this (20) apply to CWGC cemeteries? I have a couple where the only Commonwealth resident is a RAAF/RAF Australian burial and all of these are listed on the CWGC. This Aussie in the RAF is buried here Diekirsch Luxembourg - The only Commonwealth burial. CWGC :: Cemetery Details Cheers Geoff
Drew - very tricky one this as we are assuming that "Norman" is his Christian name ! Where would the Germans who buried him get that name from ..... ID tags probably....if memory serves all ID's showed Surname first - Number - then Christian name - ? on both the round and the oblong bakelite ones ??? - then again it might have been his AB64 ! But then that is a long time since I wore ID tags - any surnames of Norman killed that day ? Cheers
Thanks for the information, even if it is inconclusive. I do know that the "Heywald (Hey Forest) is located between the Maginot Line fortifications and the Franco-German border between Metz and Saarbrucken. I will dig further to see if I can find any other info. Cheers, Marc
Drew - very tricky one this as we are assuming that "Norman" is his Christian name ! Where would the Germans who buried him get that name from ..... ID tags probably....if memory serves all ID's showed Surname first - Number - then Christian name - ? on both the round and the oblong bakelite ones ??? - then again it might have been his AB64 ! But then that is a long time since I wore ID tags - any surnames of Norman killed that day ? Cheers No Norman surname on that day or Norman in that Regt in 1940. Cheers Geoff
Hi Tom.....I thought Duncan too at first but he's buried in Luxembourg and if that is the location beneath the date of death it would point to Belgium. No , it's near the border but still in France. Launstroff is a village near the Luxembourg frontier, 44 kilometres north-east of Metz. CWGC :: Cemetery Details Norman Duncan was a 2Lt. CWGC :: Casualty Details Duncan's death is described in Saul David's book page 40. He was shot in head by a sniper. Duncan shouldn't have even been there he want to replace the Platoon Sergeant -Major. Lauenstroff is very near to Remeling which is mentioned in accounts of the battle . I'd say it was Norman Duncan.
If you look at it from another angle. Suppose the Germans identified and tagged the cross on the grave incorrectly. When it was later exhumed and examined after the war, it was found to be the following soldier, who happens to be a Norman and buried in the same cemetery as the Gordon Highlander. The person I found was the following person:- Name: MacLEOD, NORMAN Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders Unit Text: 4th Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 13/05/1940 Service No: 2929394 Additional information: Son of Donald and Annie MacLeod, of Lochcarron, Ross and Cromarty. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. B. 3. Cemetery: CHOLOY WAR CEMETERY Although the QOCH were in a different brigade of the same division, were they close to the area of the Gordon Highlanders at that time? Rob
Thanks for the information, even if it is inconclusive. I do know that the "Heywald (Hey Forest) is located between the Maginot Line fortifications and the Franco-German border between Metz and Saarbrucken. I will dig further to see if I can find any other info. Cheers, Marc I forgot to say that in the account of the fighting that Norman Duncan was killed in, Heydwald is mentioned.
If you look at it from another angle. Suppose the Germans identified and tagged the cross on the grave incorrectly. When it was later exhumed and examined after the war, it was found to be the following soldier, who happens to be a Norman and buried in the same cemetery as the Gordon Highlander. The person I found was the following person:- Name: MacLEOD, NORMAN Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders Unit Text: 4th Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 13/05/1940 Service No: 2929394 Additional information: Son of Donald and Annie MacLeod, of Lochcarron, Ross and Cromarty. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. B. 3. Cemetery: CHOLOY WAR CEMETERY Although the QOCH were in a different brigade of the same division, were they close to the area of the Gordon Highlanders at that time? Rob Where did this lad die? Was he one of the exhumations that took place? The name tags may have been damaged and illegible for the surname. Still a way to go I think however I would go with Duncan. Cheers Geoff
Does this (20) apply to CWGC cemeteries? I have a couple where the only Commonwealth resident is a RAAF/RAF Australian burial and all of these are listed on the CWGC. This Aussie in the RAF is buried here Diekirsch Luxembourg - The only Commonwealth burial. CWGC :: Cemetery Details Cheers Geoff I can't remember the exact number Geoff. Geoff of search engine fame has the exact details
Thanks for the fast and detailed information! From what I know of the photo and its provenance, it seems that Norman Duncan is the perfect match. Launstroff is in the German 79ID area of operations which is the unit from which the photo came. That means the 2LT Duncan was killed during operation "Wiesewittel" of the 79.I.D. Thanks again, Marc
If you look at it from another angle. Suppose the Germans identified and tagged the cross on the grave incorrectly. When it was later exhumed and examined after the war, it was found to be the following soldier, who happens to be a Norman and buried in the same cemetery as the Gordon Highlander. The person I found was the following person:- Name: MacLEOD, NORMAN Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders Unit Text: 4th Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 13/05/1940 Service No: 2929394 Additional information: Son of Donald and Annie MacLeod, of Lochcarron, Ross and Cromarty. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. B. 3. Cemetery: CHOLOY WAR CEMETERY Although the QOCH were in a different brigade of the same division, were they close to the area of the Gordon Highlanders at that time? Rob Pretty sure he was not a Cameron, attached sketch map and details of his death.
Donald Grant was from Inverness, Neil Macdonald from Harris and Norman Macleod from Skye. Two others were wounded in the mortar attack. Macdonald's brother was killed later with the same battalion before St Valery-en-Caux. 2nl Lt Norman Duncan looks to be the soldierthat was originally interred with the German made cross.
I checked to see if there is a CWGC cemetery/graves in Heyd but it showed zero returns. As Geoff said the other day it doesn't mean there isn't a cemetery as they only list cemeteries containing more than 20 CWGC casualties I think. Cheers Andy Andy CWGC should list ALL commonwealth burials in all cemeteries. Just as Spidge pointed out he could find a single burial via their site, here's one I have visited CWGC :: Cemetery Details [CWGC :: Casualty Details Any info about this man gratefully received as I am still curious about him. He was the subject of one of my earliest ( unanswered) posts.] My understanding is that Geoff's search engine allows a drop down menu for searching cemeteries with more than 20 or so burials. If he had added all the cemeteries the engine would surely creak. [No criticism intended Geoff, I love it just the way it is.] If you searched for Heyd and found no returns in CWGC cemetery search, that should mean that no cemetery they list is actually called that - not to say there isn't one near there though. D
