Graebner Attack at Arnhem

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by airborne medic, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. kingarthur

    kingarthur Well-Known Member

    Hi Dave,

    Sure mate no worries and does that mean you don't have it signed yet LOL ;)

    Cheers
    Tom

    Bog off Butler:lol::lol:
     
  2. Trackfrower

    Trackfrower Member

    Is it true the Drabner was using a Humber Light recce Car?
     
  3. Pen and Dagger

    Pen and Dagger Junior Member

    Dear Paul, what happend to the building, is it gone?
    Erik
     
  4. MarkVdK

    MarkVdK Junior Member

  5. Vikings

    Vikings Junior Member

    Best account of the battle i have read is Martin Middlebrook's book -Arnham 1944 The Airborne Battle.
    The attention to detail is fantastic. In the account of the Grabner attack it mentions that most of the vechicles were victim to a 25 pounder.

    Excellent book.

    Rich
     
  6. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    25 pounder????
     
  7. MarkVdK

    MarkVdK Junior Member

    Best account of the battle i have read is Martin Middlebrook's book -Arnham 1944 The Airborne Battle.
    The attention to detail is fantastic. In the account of the Grabner attack it mentions that most of the vechicles were victim to a 25 pounder.

    Excellent book.

    Rich

    The para's didn't have 25-pounders at Arnhem, I think you mean a 6-pounder antitank gun.
     
  8. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    They also had some 17 pounders which were brought in by Hamilcar Glider. These came as a surprise to the Germans

    John
     
  9. MarkVdK

    MarkVdK Junior Member

    Yes they had 17-pounders, but only 6-pounders reached the bridge, and certainly no 25 pounders, sorry I wasn't being clear in my post.
     
  10. Pen and Dagger

    Pen and Dagger Junior Member

    Dear Historians

    A question about Graebner and Hoenderloo. Graebner had the Assembly Area of his PzAA9 in Hoenderloo. I collected many postcards of the building in the centre of his AA. But nowhere can I recognise a part of the building that corresponds to the famous foto of Harzer and Graebner together. As Graebner is not wearing hi RK, I suspect that the famous foto is taken somewhere else. Does anyone have a glue where that might have been?

    Erik
     
  11. Korps Steiner

    Korps Steiner Senior Member

    Guys Graebners attack across the Bridge is not surprising considering the use of the Gep Aufklarungs Abt of the Waffen SS Panzer Divisons on the Eastern Front , tactically these units were used as a fast moving assault Group containing heavy firepower and the units were used as such on numerous occasions in Russia and the Baltic States during 1944 , Graebner had learnt his trade at Tarnapol i believe.

    I'm sure that Graebner felt that the speed and forepower of his unit would be more than a match for any defenders of the Bridge at Arnhem.

    A good book to show the tactics of the Auf Abt is Armoured Reconnaisance with the Waffen SS on the Eastern Front with SS Panzer Aufk Abt 11 Nordland.

    Has anyone read in the Firestorm of the Last Years of the War by Tieke relating to this action ?
     
  12. tumbi1

    tumbi1 Member

    On page 241 Tieke has this to say;

    "It is unclear what Hauptsturmfuhrer Grabner was up to when he drove back from Elst to Arnhem... ...There does not appear to be any order for the action... ...After a short briefing and taking up a definite combat arrangement, the first armoured cars of the SS-Pz. AA 9 rolled at 09.30, at top speed, firing with every weapon", so there isn't much to learn there unfortunately.

    It does appear though that Grabner launched a definite attack, and I can only guess that he seriously underestimated how many Paras were at the north end. Tieke does say that Grabner was in radio contact with II SS-Panzerkorps the day before when he drove to Nijmegen and reported it clear, so it is possible he received intel the next morning about Paras being at Arnhem and it was decided he should clear them or he acted impulsively. He was at Elst with the bulk of his unit acting as a quick reaction force for either Nijmegen or Arnhem.
     
  13. Korps Steiner

    Korps Steiner Senior Member

    Thanks for the update from Tieke , it fits in with the tactical training and actions of many of the Aufk Abt acting on the ethos of Auftragttaktik,

    cheers

    Paul
     
  14. Korps Steiner

    Korps Steiner Senior Member

    Have just been reading Graebners personal file which shows him Gefallen at 7.30am 18/9/44 by a shot to the chest !!
     
    Paul Reed likes this.
  15. deebo

    deebo Member

    a point on artillery no 25pdrs but 6 pdrs at the bridge,they had 17pdrs but also 75mm howitzers,cant remember if these were brought to bare in the attack,ill have to go through my "gunners at Arnhem" book again
     
  16. bart belonje

    bart belonje Junior Member

    Hi Paul, this post goes back a long time but popped up when I was looking at the location of Grabner in Hoenderloo. It appears this was Foundation 'De Eikenhorst' The picture you posted shows part of this building. The building was demolished around 1970 I thought. If you google Eikenhof Hoenderloo, you will find very nice pictures of this nice building.
     
    JimHerriot likes this.

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