German tank knocked out by the 24th Lancers?

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Ramiles, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Recently on twitter...

    https://twitter.com/James1940/status/1333322254973874176?s=19

    Raises the question (to me) was there ever a picture taken of a German tank knocked out by the (British) 24th Lancers?

    i.e. post battle pictures around St.Pierre, Tilly-sur-Seulles, Fontenay, Tessel Wood, Rauray etc. ?

    There might be some, somewhere, labelled as such?

    I know too for instance that there are a number of panzer tank wrecks in the photo reconnaissance pictures taken around then and after, so perhaps those too might fit into the same criteria.

    All the best,

    Rm.

    Links...

    Battle of Putot-en-Bessin (7th - 11th June 1944)

    The Battles for Point 103 and St. Pierre (8th– 18th June 1944)

    The Battle for Tilly-sur-Seulles - Normandy - June 1944

    24th Lancers - Tessel Wood (c25th June 1944)

    Defence of Rauray by the 24th Lancers, Tyneside Scottish et alia

    24th Lancers, M4 vs Panthers. Rauray 1/7/44
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  2. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  4. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Same title, but different question... ;-)

    Re. Lt. William Sherwood Brameld, D.S.O, M.C. (256922) Royal Artillery.

    DSO citation (June 1944)
    Recommendation for Award for Brameld, William Sherwood Rank: Lieutenant ... | The National Archives

    &

    MC citation (April/May 1945)
    Recommendation for Award for Brameld, William Sherwood Rank: Lieutenant ... | The National Archives

    In Lt. Brameld's DSO citation there are a number of incidents mentioned. In one of them near St.Pierre, in Normandy, on 9th June 1944...

    When "there were enemy tanks out of range of his own guns he borrowed a Sherman* from a neighbouring Regiment and himself remained outside the tank carrying out observation and exposed to small arms fire until at least one and possibly two enemy tanks had been destroyed and all fire from that direction stopped.

    * /17pr is written nearby.

    See also: Re. Point 103 - Gunners in Normandy

    & Re. Brameld - Gunners in Normandy

    Edit: The "neighbouring Regiment" here being perhaps either the 24th Lancers or possibly the SRY. At this point in the campaign however the number of Fireflies with the 8th Armoured was approximately as follows...

    20210613_053828.jpg

    Both the 4/7 RDG and the SRY at around this stage had fewer Fireflies than the 24th Lancers - as the 4/7 RDG and the SRY had landed with two Squadrons of DD Shermans and their DD Sherman Squadrons did not initially contain Firefly tanks. What Fireflies they had (i.e. 5 a piece) landed with their non-DD Squadron - the Squadron which was waterproofed and fitted with wading apparatus.

    The 24th Lancers - had three Firefly troops (3x3=9) one in each of their sabre Squadrons- A, B and C, as well as a further Firefly attached to the HQ troop of each of A, B and C - giving the total of 12, as shown above etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  7. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Panther 204 of 2nd Company, SS Panzer Regiment 12 is examined by Sgt.George Dring, top, and Tpr.Harry Hodkin (Sgt.Drings WO, kneeling), after they helped knock it out at the crossroads between Fontenay and Rauray on 26 June 1944
    https://ar-ar.facebook.com/sherwood...iment-12-is-examined-by-sgt/2188369151397135/


    British garrison of a QF 6-pounder pass near Panther "204" of the 2./SS-Pz.Rgt.12, destroyed during the Operation Epsom, at the crossroads of the D139 and D173, between Cheux, Tessel, Rauray and Fontenay le Pesnel, 14 Km W of Caen, France. 26 June 1944.

    complete photo series of tank 204:
    Page Title
     
    Ramiles likes this.
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There's this map for example in the 4th/7th RDG book "The First and the Last" that "places" the 24th Lancers... some way further south etc. around the 26d6m1944...

    FB_IMG_1624717289193.jpg

    Edit: and a bit prior to that... 25d6m1944 etc.

    20210626_153645.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  9. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    The SRY - War Diary - for... 27d6m1944 has...

    27th June 1944
    B Sqn sent out two tps to find out the position in RAURAY. Unfortunately, the Germans had brought up some tps which they cleverly concealed in some trees and knocked out Ray Scott and his trp. Sgts Biddel + Green were also killed during the morning. RAURAY was eventually cleared of the enemy and in the village itself we found about 8 or nine enemy tanks including Panthers + Tigers and Mk IV’s which were in various stages of being knocked out. 2 of these a Tiger + a Panther were in complete working order and we brought them back to our lines.

    So there is perhaps a possibility, at least, that some of these "8 or nine enemy tanks including Panthers + Tigers and Mk IV’s which were in various stages of being knocked out."

    Had been previously engaged by the 24th Lancers.

    Incidentally there often seems to be references to the tank troops having "one Firefly per troop" in these instances, however as the "fighting strength" below shows, for the 27th June 1944, the number of Sherman 17-pr's was almost down to 1 per Squadron rather than "1 per troop"...

    FB_IMG_1624771532354.jpg

    Unfortunately, Robert Hart's MC citation (above in prior post #6) doesn't seem to specify whether or not his complete troop remained a complete troop of Sherman Fireflies, as due to losses etc some reorganisation within the 24th Lancers seems most likely to have had to have occurred. With Luddington, for instance moving to lead "C" Squadron after Major Cowley was wounded at St.Pierre. And Captain Poole having himself either been shot - kia - by a sniper (or as stated in the MO's account - perhaps in error at the time - due to the airburst of a mortar above his tank).

    The MM citation for Paddy Caulfield (above post #5) does still state specifically that Sergeant Caulfield was in command of a 17-pounder, and at least around D-Day, Paddy Caulfield had been in Lt Hart's "A" Squadron 24th Lancers Firefly troop.

    20210612_110834.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021

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