In answer to your reply Dani, I can say that first of all, Germany has paid reparations to every country it harmed, including Israel. It has spent 60 years in the doghouse (and rightly so). I dont want to see German agression arising again no more than I want to see any other country rise up and threaten other nations. My race suffered at the hands of the English, we had over 300 years of oppressive rule, a concerted effort to stamp out the Irish way of life and yes the English committed atrocities here, especially in the War of Independence. My Great Uncle was imprisoned in England after the 1916 rising and suffered miserably because of it. Do I hate the English? No I dont. Some of my best online friends are English and its over now. I dont begrudge anyone their opinion, but talking of putting down an entire race smacks of methods used 60 years ago!
Why don't you say that staying in front of big grave full with jews killed by the nazis.Or you just want to wait until they wipe out 60 million of people again ? I have stood in a concentration camp and thought that. "Never Again, not to any race" and that includes Germans Dani. I have German friends one of whom spends EVERY summer visiting Camps to lay wreaths as a way of atonement. His Father died in Breslau on the last day of the war and my friend considers it his duty to remember those who perished at the hands of his country.
dont agree with clensing germany,but letting them know this will never be tolerated again in no uncertain terms,yes.yours,lee. Lee, I think most of them know that it should never happen again.
As i said in my last post i don't want germans to be killed this will mean that we will go lower even then them, but as Sapper said "they paid lightly". They tried to exterminate number of races, millions and millions of people who were not just killed, they were brutally killed one after another. I don't need to remand you for the methods that the germans used to kill, your well aware of that, so im skiping to the next point. My nation and maybe the whole of the Balkans were under the slavery to the Ottoman empire for 500 years, actually Bulgaria was aways under someone slavery first it was Ottoman then the damn germans then communism and now USA. So i know what to be under someone powers mean. But do i blame those countrys ? No! And whys that? Because when Bulgarians come to the Balkans we killed most of the byzintine population here. Its the rules of the jungle, the stronger wins. England controled the whole world, whys that? Because they could! Germans controled Europe because they could, but that wasn't enough for them,they tryed to exterminate the jews,slavic-people, gypsis, black people, and many other races.Also they did all this with huge pleasure, you may seen pictures where one german officer is pointing a gun in the head of unarmed prisoner, and all the germans around him are smiling, and the prisoner is thinking "Make it fast". Its sick, its damn sick..! Dani
Dani I'm not trying to excuse the Germans and please dont think that I am. Its just when Brian started talklng about killing them all I was trying to say that to do so would make us no better than the Nazis. I fully understand and repect what you are saying mate. Oh yeah and its great to have you back!
It seems my last post to not register? of get through? No one is asking for the death of a nation that is DAFT...Completely DAFT! But I repeat, and it is true, the Germans got off lightly for what they did..... No ifs or buts.... but the truth! And we all know (or should) that great stretches of Germany were untouched by the war. Sapper
so Bulgarian do I understand correctly you are lumping the USA with the regime of the Nazi party in WW 2 ? if you are I would conclude your not on top of what really is going on in the mid-east and you are walking a thin line. I've been there through the areas of conflict, talked with the people and have a pretty strong opinion of what is reality. My suggestion is stick with the topic at hand. Remember the German people, my relatives included were under a mystic and all powerful force of desperates, to say that the German people should be lumped up in sum with the NSDAP is ludicrous. Brian I know from speaking with you over at the other forum your brave and noble career during the war, but I too also had relatives fight and die for the other side not to mention my own father in the US Navy and an uncle serve in an US Art/ Battalion from Normandie till wars end cranking right through the heart of the Reich
Funny how this thread exploded after I only highlighted it as there were some technical glitchies in it. (attacthments on the wrong posts) Not surprising any German members to this forum don't hang about much with such anti-German feelings amongst members. As for the statement that the British Army does not shoot it's prisoners I will now disprove with written evidence from a friend of mine , Horace Calvert, who served in the Great War in the 4th and 2nd Battalions of The Grenadier Guards. Wounded on the Somme and in 1918. He also was a long serving PC in the West Yorkshire Constablury. Letter dated 26/4/86. ..If your Uncle was a sniper & the Germans captured him, wounded or not, they would kill him like we did with them... There you go an ex-Grenadier and Policeman saying in black & white British soldiers shot prisoners. Different war, I know, but the war for the Infantryman is the most brutal warfare whenever it takes place.
There has always been a train of thought about snipers, and it is this: snipers in the front line are part of war...But snipers that remain behind in territory that is lost, and after the front has moved far forward, still continue to kill? Then they are not given the chance to surrender..But they are aware of that. Usually a cocky SS. They know that by their behaviour what to expect. And get it. But that is not shooting in cold blood. We were under fire from inside our own territory, while at Pegasus bridge. We sent out a small group of Sappers with the specific task of getting him .....And did! Sapper
dani and brian,i would say the hanging of every ss member would be sufficient to show the germans this will never be allowed to happen again.
I have interviewed British veterans from both WW1 and WW2 who admitted to having shot prisoners. One man, a veteran of Arnhem, once stood in a German cemetery with me and said 'the best type of Germans'. It is hard for us non-WW2 veteran members, as new Europeans and historians, to understand the attitude of our veteran members. I know my father (Anzio vet) would make exactly the same comments as Brian, Ron and others. We have to accept it as their opinions are based on first hand experience; we may not agree with it, and they may not agree with us, but because something like this touches a very raw nerve I am sure we can conduct ourselves in a civilised manner. What we would all agree is that Germany today, and Germany's armed forces, have moved on since 1945. And we should see that as one of the great successes of the outcome of the Second World War.
What we would all agree is that Germany today, and Germany's armed forces, have moved on since 1945. And we should see that as one of the great successes of the outcome of the Second World War. Hear Hear Paul, well said. The Bundeswehr has no historical connection whatsoever with the Wehrmacht or indeed the Kaiser's army. They were at pains to do this when constituting the Bundeswehr.
my family went through terrible ordeals in the war.my nan believes that germany should be a farming country,with no factories,shipyards etc.her family home was obliterrated in the blitz.yours,4th wilts.
The Morgenthau plan for the 'pastorialisation' of Germany, which Goebbels made so much of, was put quickly aside at Potsdam, and rightly so. Not a good idea to have a key geographical area in the European front of the growing cold war as potentially no more than an agricultural area for Soviet Tanks to roll through while looking at the cows. Far more realpolitik to reconcile as much as possible, rebuild, & add power to the Nato forces. Cheers, Adam.
Adam Thanks for that. I was making the point that Germany has paid large sums of money in reparations and I will point to this link: Germany Says No to More WWII Reparations - washingtonpost.com They are still paying pensions to Holocaust survivors (as they should) but they have been crying "mea culpa" for 60 years. How long more is enough?
so Bulgarian do I understand correctly you are lumping the USA with the regime of the Nazi party in WW 2 ? if you are I would conclude your not on top of what really is going on in the mid-east and you are walking a thin line. I've been there through the areas of conflict, talked with the people and have a pretty strong opinion of what is reality. My suggestion is stick with the topic at hand. Remember the German people, my relatives included were under a mystic and all powerful force of desperates, to say that the German people should be lumped up in sum with the NSDAP is ludicrous. Brian I know from speaking with you over at the other forum your brave and noble career during the war, but I too also had relatives fight and die for the other side not to mention my own father in the US Navy and an uncle serve in an US Art/ Battalion from Normandie till wars end cranking right through the heart of the Reich No i don't put USA on one with Germany, and look how you behave on that! Your starting to defend your corner without anyone attacking, your starting to tell me about mid-east and so on. Look at your self, your overreacting and by this actions, your just trowing oil in the fire. I don't want to speak about USA the topic isn't about USA and the mid-east i have my own opinion about USA, most of the population of US don't know where Bulgaria is and for me thats enough to disrespect you. Im sick and tired by your patriotism, i watch enough hollywood movies.. Owen, as i said before in my post young germans don't study about ww2 and don't want to know anything about it! This is arrogant, even too arrogant. They say that communism is illness, i think that nazism is illness too. Dani
Dani then why did you bring it up - the USA ? and correct it isn't about my country ......... is it, don't preach to me, I've been on the front lines, I'd rather be patriotic than a ho- hum passive fool
actually Bulgaria was aways under someone slavery first it was Ottoman then the damn germans then communism and now USA. This is what you wrote Dani. I was a bit interested in that line of thought myself but did not respond as I unable to until after Erich had and did not wish to add fuel to the fire at that time. The only military interaction I am aware of that involves Bulgaria and the US is in Iraq and I am not aware that the US is involved in any aspect of the governing of Bulgaria. What are you refering to that would make you consider adding the US into the same line of thought, where slavery is concerned, with the Ottoman Turks, the Nazis and Communists?
I was speaking about the slavery that Bulgaria was in the last 600-700 years, that we were aways serving for other interest.Today we are serving for USA interests, your country have bases here, we send soldiers in Iraq, and everything we do is on US model. Thats slavery to me. Thats why i did bring up USA. You think patriotism means to fight for your country in war 5000 km away, in country that don't have nothing to do with US, and don't put your country in danger? Actually right now we are speaking about arrogans here, well isn't arrogant when US army occupy small country and says that they do this because of the peace ? Well it sounds damn arrogant to me! I can aways pick up a rifle and fight if the enemy attacks my country, and when i fight for my family back in the house two blocks away from the enemy, i will fight when the enemy attacks the country that my family fought to build and fought to defend before me. But i won't fight 5000km away in a country that does not treat my country. Bulgarians fight only to defend there country thats what we do 1300 years already, we NEVER fought more then 1000 km away from our country ! Thats what patriotism is in MY opinion! Dani
so am I understanding you right that the USA should not be in Bulgaria or Iraq ? seriously I am trying figure this out. clearly your idea of patriotism is different than mine and so be it I can live with that. Have you had a chance to chat with some of the US military in your country for their opinion(s) ? and yes I know I am getting OT
