German Firefly - Captured Vehicles in Enemy Service

If I was a German tankie, I wouldn't want to crew it.

 

Looks like the same vehicle but not the only captured example. Eg.:
There is also a fascinating captured Firefly featured in several photos, complete with extended end connectors on the tracks, spare track links welded to the hull front, side, and turret, and a German muzzle brake on the 17 pdr. gun. - Review of Panzerwrecks book on http://ipmslondon.tripod.com/armourreviews/id38.html
Clearly not the one above, could be this one:

From a fascinating but slow Russian site: http://beute.narod.ru/ on Beutepanzers
Which has links to several pages of captured Firefly shots but I'm still waiting for 'em to load, what I can see so far are very good indeed.
Edit:- Noticed a much faster mirror of the Beutepanzer site at: http://beute.pz1.ru/ really is excellent stuff.
Cheers,
Adam

 

Just noticed there's a much faster Mirror of that Beutepanzer site at:
http://beute.pz1.ru/

 

Great find Adam.
Where they left in green or overpainted Panzer Grey?

 

That site's a blinder isn't it.
On colour I'm not 100% sure but In most colour pics of captured gear it's been repainted (eg. the t34 recovered in that video is panzergrau) , I know I'd want to do that rather than add to the already huge potential for 'blue on blue'.
It was pretty standard practice for German crews to paint their vehicles in the field. (until quite late in the war when factory patterns were nominally enforced, that's quite a 'loose' and big subject so I won't go there) They used a kind of paste/pigment that could be diluted in pretty much anything from water to petrol, I've even read of Urine being used. So it would be no big deal or pain in the BTM to repaint captured gear, surely worth the bother.

 

Just surprised they weren't repainted in the 3 colour camo. sand/green/redbrown.(see the T34 and Valentines on that site in GB section)
Also all GB markings overpainted which is a shame, trying to work out original owners.

 

Looks rather good on a Sherman:
http://beute.pz1.ru/Beutepanzer/su/color/lend-lease.htm

Video page is interesting too:
http://beute.pz1.ru/Beutepanzer/su/video/video-1.htm

 

So where were PZ As Regt 4 serving ?
Good illustration.

 

With reference to Normandy; I think the rate they were losing vehicles (c.1500 'A' vehicles throughout the campaign?) they'd take any old port in a storm wouldn't they? Particularly one with a decent gun. The defensive nature of much of their fight would make the Firefly (or any other intact AFV) another handy TD hidden in the bushes.
As for ammo supply, I bet they could lay their hands on enough to maintain the gun for it's inevitably short life. Also, why not? even if you had only 20 rounds of 17pdr; each of those is still better than nothing, especially in the desperate buildup to Falaise, once it's run out; dump the thing and be thankful for a little bonus.

 

The ammo isnt that rare is it,
To digress, it is now.
Bloke at Cobbaton Combat has acquired a 17pdr AT gun. It was displayed at a recent show with a small selection of various types of appropriate shells, cases, etc. and it was reckoned the Ammo was probably worth more than the gun itself.

Adrian, the main visual difference is that exceptionally long gun with the distinctive rounded muzzle brake and the extended bustle, stood by a row of Shermans with some mates once having this argument and just had to point upwards at the 17pdr gun, about twice as long as the other Shermans present.

 

These Germans looking at abandoned Firefly here.
http://www.desertrats.org.btinternet.co.uk/images/VillersBocage/Firefly4trpASqdn4clyVB.jpg

From Villers-Bocage Commemoration Page

Did you know Argentina used Fireflies too.
Argentina

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Firefly-1969.jpg
later I read they put 105mm in their Shermans.

 

By coincidence this month's issue (March) of 'Military Machines International' magazine has an article on Beutepanzers. Concentrating on French captured gear with many (largely new to me) photographs of French tanks in German service, Just reading it now, seems rather good.
(maybe there'll be something on the Char b's fuel supply for the French Armour thread )