Hello everyone! ive come on this forum hoping someone could help me with a very simple query for anyone knowledgeable about ww2...I have a photo of a soldier taken in France in 1940 and am trying to figure out (by the uniform etc) if he's british or french...It was taken in may 1940 in Arras, France at British army GHQ there...I dont know if its a brit soldier or a french army "agent de liaison" as many were posted there...Apart from the soldier himself sitting on his bed one can see his coat ,weapon and helmet hanging on the door as well as some maps on the wall...cllmda@msn.comIf anyone thinks they can help me id be glad to send you by email the 2 photos(ill try to add them on here but dunno if ill manage it or not..) and your help would be very much appreaciated! View attachment 1304 View attachment 1305 View attachment 1306
Very difficult. It looks like British battedress to me and I don't thin there was a French uniform like it in 1940, but I cannot spot anything else which is obvious. Did French greatcoats have brass buttons? British ones did, as in the picture.
Thats a British Battledress and no mistake. The Jacket on the guy gives it away. French jackets were lnoger than the British counterpart.
Also, the fact that he is reading "LIFE" magazine also tells you he was an English reader. Doubtful that very many French enlisted men knew English. I am not saying it is impossible but improbable.
By the way, there is no mistaking that the coat hanging on the door is a British army greatcoat. absolutely typical, again something that I wore. Sapper Also the "puttees! and I can recall quite clearly that the army boots had to have exactly 13 studs, I got sent back once for an evening out, for not having the right number Sapper
(jimbotosome @ Nov 30 2005, 03:14 AM) [post=42289]Also, the fact that he is reading "LIFE" magazine also tells you he was an English reader. Doubtful that very many French enlisted men knew English. I am not saying it is impossible but improbable. [/b] With a room of his own and all, I had supposed him to be an officer.
In one picture, in the background is a standard British army gas mask hanging on a peg. looks mighty like the Regimental company clerk. definately a private soldier, but no uniform insignia...That is odd! This is the same uniform but with the open neck "Walking out style" Sapper
(angie999 @ Nov 30 2005, 05:40 AM) [post=42301]With a room of his own and all, I had supposed him to be an officer. [/b] That's a good observation. In addition, not many privates and NCOs would be studying a map and plotting strategies.
Without doubt a private soldier, and for me, absolutely typical of the company clerk, who's job it was to keep the maps up to date. He is not plotting anything, just marking up the maps, presumably to idenify where the units are, or were. The uniform for an officer was quite different, certainly nothing like the one that this man, and I wore. Heavy, itchy, very heavy when wet, or DEW soaked in early morning actions in the grass, or corn fields. Sapper
I am not saying you are wrong sapper but don't you find it peculiar that the officers would come to his private quarters to review maps? I mean, what if he is sleeping and one or more officers keep getting curious about troop positions and keep wanting to take a look the maps? Also, would a company clerk really be a buck private? If it was important that he had exactly 13 studs on the boots but not important that he have the any insignias on his uniform?
Jimbo, in 1940 the British did not wear insignia such as regimental titles and divisional flashes. Both officers and men wore battedress in the field, but the officers would have obtained their's from a military tailor rather than had it issued and it would have been of a better cut and made from better cloth. As far as style is concerned, officers wore their battledress with an open neck and a collar and tie, whereas other ranks wore it buttoned to the neck, at least for most of the war, although an improved style was introduced towards the end (not sure that everyone got issued with it). Here is my dad's photo from about 1942 which shows the style and the insigia in use by then.
The uniform is that of the British Army.The gaiters worn are typical of those worn by NCOs and soldiers in the British Army
It may not be known, but the cap badges were made of "bakelite" as they would not reflect the suns rays. wish I could get hold of one today Sapper
Nice photo - kind of illustrates the stark wartime life even in quarters, not much brightness in there, just the magazine he is reading. Very thoughtful picture. Kind regards MG
First of all a great many thanks to everyone who has posted replies and tried to help me in this... The research is very complicated as im hearing different contrasting info... This is what i know: the photo was taken at british GHQ at Arras. Normally the soldier was supposed to be a french "agent de liaison" posted there ,meaning that he was supposedly representing the french army there.. However i had been told previously by one source that the uniform was English... This soldier has a french name and surname,but born in the UK... The French consulate in London has assured me that French army papers were submitted(and verified by them) to them as proof of nationality in 1977...(showing service 1939-1940-demobilized-re-engaged 1940/41 London until june 1945 Paris) The French army today tells me that their archives show no trace of this soldier..... I know that the soldier was evacuated at Dunkirk towards the end of the evacuation process,first on a french destroyer which was touched by a mine just outside of Dunkirk and sunk. the soldier was then picked up by a british boat(small) and evacuated to the UK where he was interned in some kind of camp on arrival for id verification purposes(apparently this was the case for all the french soldiers picked up and evacuated at dunkirk,i dont know if the Brits also had to go through this process...) The soldier was then "demobilized"...he went on on his own to London and joined the Free French at de Gaulle's London HQ and was demobilized in June 1945 in Paris. The calendar in the photo is French, the brand name on it was apparently a very popular tonic/apéritif in France at that time.The date on it is Sunday May 5, 1940,in french.. I have also managed to track the Life magazine issue to more or less that period.(about a month or so previously) I really dont understand why he would be wearing a British army uniform if he was French....(though later on the Free French at de gaulle's London HQ DID wear British army uniforms ,given to them because there were NO french uniforms ....and no french army... at that time...But this photo is dated 1940,not '41 '42 etc... Before appealing to this forum a source had already told me something to that effectt(that the uniform appears to be a Brit one)...and everyone here seems to be confirming this... Very confusing !!! I absolutely have to be able to id this somehow,as im researching it for someone needing to use it in a book .. The French army has been pleasant enough but not very competent.They say they have no lists of who boarded what boats during the Dunkirk evacuation.As ive found out the name of the French destroyer sunk by the mine(there was only one that did) i was hoping they could verify the lists of who had been assigned to be evacuated on that boat...but they say it all happened in chaos and they have no official lists..or perhaps the person i dealt with was incompetent(that happens alot too with French civil servants..!!) Many thanks to anyone who can add anything! cluadine
(jimbotosome @ Dec 1 2005, 05:27 PM) [post=42357]Did your dad survive the war Angie? [/b] I hope so, because I was born in 1947! Thanks for asking. (sapper @ Dec 1 2005, 04:23 PM) [post=42353]It is not very clear but is that the Welsh Div sign Angie? [/b] It could be. He was certainly stationed in South Wales for a time, but then he got posted to Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, he died in the 1980s and I never asked him such detailed questions.
(claudine @ Dec 3 2005, 02:26 PM) [post=42553]The French army has been pleasant enough but not very competent.They say they have no lists of who boarded what boats during the Dunkirk evacuation.[/b] There were no lists. They just did not have the time to keep records. Troops were simply put on the first available transport according to who was at the head of the queue. In Britain, only a minority of the French troops elected to stay and join the Free French. The majority were repatriated back to France.
