Found handwritten draft for Combat reports on reverse of German document. Can you help?!

Hello all,

I recently picked up a document online that looked to have some interesting hand written notes on the reverse. The document itself appears to be a technical diagram for a component from a Ju 86.

On the reverse is what looks to be a hand written draft for three combat reports written by an allied pilot. Interestingly, it's dated 28/08/45 so presume written from memory?

There's mention of combat over Luneburg and the downing of a FW190, crashing south of the river Elbe.

A close call with 2 Gloster Meteors.

Mention of Fehrbellin, Schwerina lake, Schwerin town.

Are there any clues here as to who wrote these drafts? I'd love to find out. There looks to be a pilot named as "Fisher".

I've attached a scan of the document and my attempt at working it out. With text I'm unsure about marked in red.

If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be grateful!

Thanks.

 

This is a really tough one, but here are a few thoughts …


and fired about 1, 2 bursts

Fisher broke round as he passed and turned on to him

Flak English shooting at them as he was about to fire recognised them as 2 Meteors together. Thought he was shooting at me.

a/c dispersed along east edge of wood
a/c targeting north along edge of wood
lots of trade activity in wood (not sure about 'trade')

carefully prepared

all parked both sides of road and side roads as well, facing west and south west

 

Here is the front of the document.

 

Thank you tmac! Agree with all of that. Glad you spotted the bit about English flak.

Have to say the language used doesn't sound English to me. Just have a feeling it's RCAF. They were certainly in the area.

The notes have been written on the back of this Ju86 technical drawing (above) so I presume the pilot grabbed the first bit of paper he could. Possibly at a requisitioned Luftwaffe airfield? Date is after the wars end and no mention as far as I can see for specific dates on each report.

It's a puzzle I'd love to solve.

 

Looks like it's a device to change positions of the lights on a Ju 86.

Change instructions for detached device.
Model and series Ju 86 Leaf count 9 sheet 4.
Limit switches with actuation.
(In the extended state of the chassis)

 

In this context I believe 'Trade' is potential targets, suitable for further attention.

 

Maybe it's not as hard as it looks.
Meteors did not arrive in Europe until 20th Jan 45.
So have to find out losses of 109s from then to end of war.
And RAF squadrons which would be operating in the area stated.
A pilot named Fisher with possibly a first name beginning with S who flew a plane marked XVI.

 

Munster taken by Allies 2nd April 45.
Hamburg taken 28th April 45.
So to have allied flak NNE of Luneburg this event must have happened after 2nd April.

Red 2 and red 3 fired off 1,2 bursts SF XVI cut in and clobbered it.
Assuming that SF XVI is a Spitfire Mk XVI. Why mention the type of aircraft?
Because the others were flying different types.

Not had time to read this site yet But.
Spitfire Mk XIV versus Me 109 G/K
Spitfire XIV of 414 (RCAF) Squadron, Wunstorf, Germany, April 1945.
Wunstorf. Just to the west of Hanover.

Slowly getting there I think.

 

So the interpretation of the text is as follows:

29/08/45

A) Patrol _____ ___ N NE of Luneburg
B) 41/3
C) 12.20 - 14.10
D) Nil
E) Engaged with 3/190. 2 into (cloud) by Red 2. Red 3 fired about 1,2 bursts. W (S) F XVI cut in and clobbered it & it went in and blew up S of River Elbe.

Resumed patrol. (Out)burst of flak. (2) 2 Meteors appeared up my ass (?) _____ from 8 o'clock. 3000. Fisher broke round as he passed and turned onto him. Flak English shooting at them. As he was about to fire he recognised them as 2 Meteors together. Thought he was shooting at me. 13.40

41/5 06.05 - 07.45

SE a/c dispersed along East edge of wood.
(2 eng)
____ a/c targeting North along edge of wood. Lots of trade activity in wood. Ground rolled along edge of wood. T 4850 to 4854.
Very good camouflage.
Saw 30 109 & 190. 1/252 (should be 262?) 1 190 ___ (shooting) ____ _____.

(Unreadable time)

Carefully prepared.
Red _____ 09.45 - 11.25
Uneventful. Cloud (at 7000ft & later) at 900ft. Later at Fehrbellin (at 2000ft recalled)
A/D (Air Depot?) outfitted (returned/ventured) south to _____ _____
_____ _____ after into (we/a)

Blue 6/41

R______ s Schwerina Lake ____o
Concentration of (men)
Schwerin town (to point) about 2503.
All parked both sides of road and side roads as well, facing West and South West.
Flying at 10000, (7/10) (J0250) 10/10 good vis 5M.


Patrol
T______ (Lowry) g____
(Timber/Limber) - (Dds) 0-2
T1452S

 

Fantastic! I hadn't picked up on SF XVI being a Spit. Is it possible they are Meteor pilots? 616 Squadron were on Meteors based at a Luneburg between 3/05/45 and 07/05/45.

616 Squadron were the only Squadron on Meteors in N/W Europe at the time presumably. It appears they were eventually given a white finish to avoid misidentification from ground troops.

 

Thanks RCG. Is it not FW190's they are engaged with here? Looks to me that the Spit clobbered one of the 3/190's rather than an Me109.

 

That isn't an aircraft identification number at bottom right is it? T(1/I?)452(s/9?).

 

Yes that a problem late at night, my brains, got one number and my fingers writing another.
the chap who wrote that report seems to have had the same problem..

Id no, will check on that later.

 

Thanks RCG! Haha, that appears to be the case! And I appreciate you looking into it.

I think I've cracked the Squadron. I think it's 41 Squadron.

41/3
41/5
6/41

"The Squadron was re-equipped with the Spitfire XIV in September 1944"

"In April 1945, the Squadron moved forward with the advancing front and made its first base in Germany, just southwest of the town of Celle, 140 miles (225 km) due west of Berlin, and only a short distance southeast of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. During April and early May 1945, German resistance crumbled. 41 Squadron claimed 33 enemy aircraft destroyed, two probably destroyed and three damaged in the air and 21 damaged on the ground, in the 23 days preceding 3 May 1945 (the date of the Squadron’s final claim). Their own casualties for the same period were no pilots killed or wounded in action, and no aircraft lost to enemy action, although some did sustain combat damage."

Celle is located just south of Luneburg.

 

And I believe this might be our 41 Squadron Fisher...

FISHER, Roy Robert George
Number 412671
Rank Flight Lieutenant
Nationality New Zealander
Born Pukerimu, Cambridge, New Zealand, 21 October 1920
Arrived 24 February 1945
Departed 9 May 1945
Decorations MiD (1944), MiD (1945)
Notes Commissioned Jan 1943; ceased to be attached to RAF & rejoined RNZAF, Aug 1945; relinquished commission in RNZAF and joined RNZAF Reserve, Nov 1945; retired Oct 1975; died 22 Dec 1988

 

Just looking again at the document, I think there may be another name there.

Under the paragraph headed Carefully Prepared, I think it says ...

'Skinner then ----into -----'

Can we find anyone named Skinner in the squadron?

 

This is a list of Pilots with 41 Squadron with names beginning with S.

The Pilots of 41 Squadron RAF 1939-1946 - S

Unfortunately no Skinner. I'm fairly positive that it's 41 Squadron though. And that we have the right Fisher.

 

Doing a bit of research and the IWM has a whole bunch of gun cam footage from 41 Squadron for 8/04/45. All attacking ground targets. Includes a list of pilot names for the period and includes Fisher. The man who wrote these reports is in this list I'm sure.

Full description
Combat Film No 9484. Flying Officer Smith of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1245, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9485. Flight Lieutenant Stone of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1245, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9486. Flying Officer Hagarty of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1245, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9487. Flight Sergeant Smart of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1245, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9489. Squadron Leader Shepherd of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1245, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9490. Sergeant Scott of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1800, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9491. Second Lieutenant Bodtker of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1800, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9492. Warrant Officer Whale of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1800, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9493. Flying Officer Fisher of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1800, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9494. Flying Officer Smith of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1900, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9495. Flight Lieutenant Stowe of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1900, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9496. Warrant Officer Chalmers of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1900, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9497. Flight Lieutenant Gaze of 41 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1900, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9498. Flight Sergeant Kelly of 41 Squadron on 9/4/1945 at 1700, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9499. Flight Lieutenant Cowell of 41 Squadron on 9/4/1945 at 1700, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9500. Flight Lieutenant Wilkinson of 41 Squadron on 11/4/1945at 0930, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9501. Pilot Officer Coleman of 41 Squadron on 11/4/1945at 0930, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets.

Full description
Combat Film No 9502. Flight Lieutenant Gaze of 41 Squadron on 11/4/1945at 1000, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground targets and Junkers Ju 52.

 

Blue 6/41

Palatted or some other slang term. Schwerina Lake ____o
Concentration of (men) I would say Military
Schwerin town (to point) about 2503. 2503 would be a map reference same as T 4850 to 4854 in 5/41
All parked both sides of road and side roads as well, facing West and South West.
Flying at 10000, (7/10) (J0250) 10/10 good vis 5M.

I suspect that it was this area south of the town, also looks as if there was a airstrip in the woods.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...6374d0!8m2!3d52.8109331!4d12.7721344?hl=en-GB

Before anyone asks the circles lower down are not crop circles made by aliens.
But automated irrigation systems for farmers.

Patrol
T______ (Lowry) g____ Could be Gus but the G looks like an 8.
(Timber/Limber) - (Dds) 0-2
I suspect the man who wrote this is Dds. as if you was writing it you would most likely just write your initials.

T1452S No idea about this number.

Under the paragraph headed Carefully Prepared, I think it says ...
Skinner then ----into -----'

No. Ventured south to Pol dire 8lunnei. So it's a place.
Problem is we don't know what the letters are, or even if the three words should be joined together, then there's that letter looking like an 8.
As this man was not a German, and the records written a fair while after the event he could not remember the correct spelling. So the actual place, when said could sound like atelunnei. Just a thought.

 

I’d say it’s definitely ‘returned’ south, not ‘ventured’ south.

‘Pol’ looks to me more like ‘pat’ or ‘pot’. ‘Dire’ looks more like ‘dive’ or ‘line’.

Could it be shorthand for be ‘patrol line’? – that is, ‘returned south to patrol line’.

‘8lunnei’ could well be the man's phonetic version of a location. But I still think what looks like an 8 is the letter S.

If you look five lines above, you’ll see a similar '8' rendering on what looks like the word ‘Stopping’.

Again, these are just guesses. The whole document is a very tough one and it would be a real achievement to 'translate' it all.