Former camp workers in German courts 2021

Discussion in 'The Third Reich' started by Dave55, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Maybe if they find her guilty she could do lines on her typewriter.
     
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  2. Blutto

    Blutto Plane Mad

    You're a card Owen, as sharp as a tack :)
     
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  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thinking about it I should have said , "if found guilty she could do a sentence on her typewriter."

    Ok , I've overdone it now.

    I wonder if the typewriter manufacturer will be sued - if still in existence.
     
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  4. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    they’d get off as they use the defence that Schindler’s list was typed on one of their machines
     
    Owen likes this.
  5. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Curiously enough, the CIA were still interested in Stutthof in the mid 1950's.

    See NARA "Advanced Search": ARC Identifier: 19051496

    Go to page 92. Some kind soul has transcribed most of the 100 page report.

    640447_Box32_Folder1_092.jpg
     
  6. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96


    The latest on the 96 year old woman is that she is back home again, but the court will resume the case on 19 October.
    Stefan.
     
  7. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    sigh
    ...it would have been much more credible if the actual criminals and masterminds had already been sentenced in the 50s. But at that time we Germans were unfortunately still too cowardly - and too stubborn.
    The old lady is just a cheap scapegoat.
    It may sound cynical to some, but I can certainly understand why, as an old woman, she doesn't understand being charged for something she did as a 17-year-old accomplice
    Others, who were far more guilty, were acquitted decades ago - incomprehensibly so.

    But in spite of everything, the message is clear: Those who associate themselves with criminal regimes must have to worry about the consequences for the rest of their lives.
    It would be very desirable if this would pay off some day....even at the price that true justice sometimes seems pretty unfair
    This is owed to the innocent victims.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    Dave55 likes this.
  8. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    I agree. Virtue signaling.

    Authorities were too chicken to go after the powerful business leaders and politicians in the fifties. Joachim Piper worked for Porsche, for heavens sake.

    Every single one of these scumbags should have been breaking rocks for the rest of their lives.

    HIAG - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  9. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Yes, that would have been an appropriate punishment....
    but you know: McCarthy, the communist threat, the enemy of my enemy is my friend...
    Realpolitik, unfortunately, always has a certain odor of excrement - an appropriate camouflage for former Nazis, under which they could best hide themselves
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  10. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Reports of the proceedings against the 96 year old woman refer to a previous case as being an important precedent. However, whilst I can find an English copy of the indictment in the "precedent" case it is proving impossible ( to me, German reading ability: nil ) to find an online copy of the judgment. Various articles cite internet links to the judgment text but these are all now broken.

    It is common to find references such as:

    " The Munich II Regional Court sentenced John Demjanjuk to five years imprisonment on May 12, 2011 for aiding and abetting murder (file number 1 Ks 115 Js 12496/08, not legally binding). "

    In 2019 the ECHR dealt with proceedings brought by relatives [ Demjanjuk v. Germany (application no. 24247/15) ] :

    " The Court ( ECHR ) found that it did not raise an issue under Article 6 § 2 that the Regional Court, after a trial of 91 days, setting out its legal and factual assessment in a judgment of 220 pages, had determined that there was at least a significant state of suspicion against the accused."

    Is there a working link to the 220 page judgment of the Munich II Regional Court ?

    The link to the English copy of the indictment is here:

    https://www.willzuzak.ca/tp/Demjanjuk2009/trawniki1393/Munich-Indictment-ENGLISH.pdf
     
  11. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    A thought-provoking article on the process:

    The entire Holocaust, the system of about 7000 concentration and extermination camps as well as ghettos, this entire mass crime can be blamed on only three perpetrators until today. Yes, read correctly: There were no more, only these three perpetrators bear the sole responsibility, their names are Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich. All the others, the thousands who fired shots in the back of the neck, kicked people into pits, spat at them, insulted them and laughed at them, beat them into gas chambers and murdered them with poison gas, all those who were still alive after 1945, they were merely will-less assistants.
    (...)
    This is, in summary, the German jurisprudence on the Holocaust that is still valid today, all the way up to the Federal Supreme Court. Only three perpetrators would have set the crime against humanity in motion, this strange, contrived view was conceived by German courts in the postwar years. In this way, they created a convenient way out, which enabled them to classify tens of thousands of concentration camp murderers as mere "assistants" and to let them off cheaply or to drop their cases right from the start.
    (...)

    Almost all those who participated in the Holocaust have been downgraded to accomplices

    This is still the legal standard in Germany today when it comes to the Holocaust. Almost all who were involved in it have been defined down to mere assistants. The shooters at the rifle, because they were so far down in the hierarchy and had nothing to command; the desk perpetrators in the parlor, because they were so far removed from the hierarchy and had no blood on their hands; even the deputy commandant of Auschwitz, Robert Mulka, was convicted in 1965 for mere aiding and abetting - against the loud protest of the courageous prosecutor Fritz Bauer. At most, the few defendants who went beyond the Nazi killing plan on their own authority have been sentenced by courts to life imprisonment as "excess offenders." And that is the exception.

    The rule is: if one person kills another, it is murder; but if a few hundred people run a racist killing factory, almost none of them is a murderer, responsibility diffuses graciously in the air, so to speak. Almost all of them are then considered merely accessories. This legal spin has enabled the German judiciary to date to indict only about 2,000 of some 140,000 Nazi suspects under investigation for homicide, as historian Andreas Eichmüller researched a few years ago. In just over 200 cases, the judges found murder, in just under 500 cases aiding and abetting murder, and in just over 300 cases manslaughter or aiding and abetting. No more.


    Full article here:
    Holocaust und NS-Verbrechen: Es waren Mörder
     
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  12. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    "The applicable domestic law in Germany was and still is the German Criminal Code (hereinafter referred to as the “Code”) originating from the year 1871 (Strafgesetzbuch, RGBl. 1871, p. 127); thus a piece of legislation predating the 20th century by almost 30 years, predating the WW I by almost 45 years and predating the last global conflict represented by the WW II by almost 70 years. It comes with no surprise at all that this Code was shaped in a traditional way, which presented serious difficulties in how to grasp crimes perpetrated in such vast and concerted practice as were the crimes of holocaust, exploitation of slave labor, and large-scale persecution of domestic civilian population etc. under the auspices of Nazi Germany."

    See article found here:

    STATUTORY LIMITATION OF CRIMES UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW: LESSONS TAKEN FROM THE PROSECUTION OF NAZI CRIMINALS IN GERMANY AFTER 1945 AND THE NEW "DEMJANJUK CASE LAW" | Kohout | International Comparative Jurisprudence
     

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