Former camp workers in German courts 2021

Discussion in 'The Third Reich' started by Dave55, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    I wonder how hard it would be to find it
  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    She's done a runner!

    A 96-year-old German woman fled ahead of the opening on Thursday of her trial on charges of aiding and abetting mass murder in a Nazi concentration camp during World War II, a court spokesperson said.

    Irmgard Furchner is accused of having contributed as an 18-year old to the murder of 11,412 people when she was a typist at the Stutthof concentration camp between 1943 and 1945.
    "The accused is on the run," said court spokesperson Frederike Milhoffer. "She left her home early in the morning in a taxi in the direction of a metro station."

    The spokesperson said an arrest warrant had been issued.

    Her current whereabouts are unknown. Charges cannot be read unless Furchner, who faces trial in an adolescent court because of her young age at the time of the alleged crimes, is present in court in person.

    German 96-year-old Nazi war crimes suspect flees ahead of trial - CNN
  3. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    What a crazy situation
  4. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Too bad we Germans don't have agent 007 to hunt her down. I suppose Daniel Craig is busy chasing other villains...
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    The old question
    Did these people not realise what was going on in and around their home or work environs.

    The innocence of youth is no excuse nor the passing of time
    smdarby likes this.
  6. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

  7. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    This trial seems like more virtue signalling to me, a massive waste of money and time.
    Blutto and Lindele like this.
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    never forgive and never forget even is she looks like your nan
    smdarby and alberk like this.
  9. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Apparently, she did not turn up for a court hearing, so the police searched for her, found the woman and locked her up. No end to this story yet.
  10. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    You are quite correct, the Holocaust should never be forgotten - and I am sure it will not.

    Its been 80 years since the start of Operation Reinhard and its my opinion that the German people finally be allowed to move on from the events of the 1930's and 40's. I don't think its healthy for coming generations of Germans to live in perpetual guilt for crimes committed so long ago. The legacy of the Holocaust should be handled with care, it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the German people with just to bring in fashionable politics.

    *obligatory "I'm not a supporter of Nazism" statement.
    Blutto, Harry Ree, ltdan and 3 others like this.
  11. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    I was born in 1963 and I do not live in perpetual guilt - nor do others in my generation or Germans younger than me.

    The old woman we're discussing here lives in perpetual guilt. It is her personal guilt that the court will be deliberating on - not the guilt of "the German people".

    I - and many other Germans - still feel that we need a hightened awareness to prevent such crimes from happening again. That is our resposibility with regard to our present and the future. So, it is my opinion that we do not need any sympathy for supposedly being "beaten with stick" by anybody advocating "fashionable politics". What are those fashionable politics supposedly victimizimg the German people as a whole?
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
    JimHerriot, ltdan, AB64 and 2 others like this.
  12. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    The court will have re-start on the 17th October and may need several more sessions.
  13. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Oh my!
    97-year-old defendant flees nursing home by cab....
    Police catch her after several hours of chase....

    That's what I call functioning justice!
    OK: 75 years delay...but it's the good will that counts, isn't it!?
    sarcasm off

    Now, however, I finally get get a sense of what "ridiculous" REALLY means
    Blutto and Dave55 like this.
  14. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

    There is no statute of limitations for crimes against humanity, nor should there be. For those questioning why this woman was not brought to justice sooner, the answer is in the article referred to in post no. 15. Here is the relevant passage:

    "More trials in recent years after Demjanjuk precedent
    The legal precedent that made it easier to try to bring elderly former Nazi concentration camp workers to justice in Germany was set by the John Demjanjuk trial, who was tried in Germany in 2011.

    Nazi Germany captured Demjanjuk as a Ukrainian prisoner of war but he was later drafted in to work at the notorious Treblinka extermination camp.

    Before that case, judges needed solid enough evidence of concrete personal involvement in a specific murder or murders before they could agree to hear a case. Now, demonstrating that an individual worked at a concentration camp and contributed to its more general systematic killing of inmates can suffice for a conviction. The legal change came too late to bring justice to many Nazi collaborators.

    In July 2020, a 93-year-old man was found guilty at a juvenile court for being an SS guard at the camp and given a two-year suspended sentence."
    alberk likes this.
  15. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    To avoid misunderstandings: I criticize the fact that it is so late:
    Here in the 50s former Nazi judges have judged Nazi war criminals....
    former SS-soldiers were entitled to compensation for life
    while former concentration camp prisoners were denied compensation because they had no documents to confirm their imprisonment.
    But in 2021, police are hunting 97-year-olds:
    That comes 75 years too late
    alberk, JimHerriot and Dave55 like this.
  16. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

    I understand your point, but no criminal justice system is perfect. Better late than never to right wrongs.
    JimHerriot and ltdan like this.
  17. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Latest news, she has been taken in custody
  18. Blutto

    Blutto Banned

    I believe that there are many more recent wrongs that have been overlooked for political expediency. Many current crimes are also not prosecuted as "not in the public interest". This is frankly farcical and my original position is unchanged.
    jonheyworth and Lindele like this.
  19. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

    I just read an article in The Times. Apparently, she wrote a letter to the judge stating: “As an 18 and 19-year-old I did nothing that I should be held responsible for as a 96-year-old.” This is of course wrong.

    I like to read the online comments in The Times as you can often get a good feel for the general public mood (provided you ignore comments by the wackos and Russian bots!). From what I saw, opinions seem to be split right down the middle as to whether she should be prosecuted or not, much like they appear to be here.

    Interestingly, her defence revolves around statute of limitations issues rather than denying she was involved:
    "Her defence rests on the argument that she knew about the executions but did not know how they were carried out, which would make her an accessory to manslaughter rather than to murder. This would invalidate the prosecution under Germany’s statute of limitations."
    Lindele likes this.
  20. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Not a reference to Germany, but to the Netherlands East Indies and the treatment of convicted Japanese POWs. Quite remarkable, especially since so many Japanese were executed. See a Dutch site which is in English: Prosecution - East Indies camp archives
    Lindele and JimHerriot like this.

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