Hi there, i started researching this last year but gave up for 6 months while i was away and now back on it again. I am looking for the service records of my grandfather who i believe to have been involved in the Arctic Convoys to Murmansk. His name was William Black, born - 24th July 1921 in Largs, Ayrshire He was an officer in the merchant Navy. Everything after this is abit vague, unfortunately he passed away 6 years ago now and i never really asked him any questions about his time in the war as he found it quite upsetting. I've heard off my gran (although not sure how valid it is) that he was on a merchant cargo ship which was sunk by a u-boat? on it's way back home again. I think he left on the ship from down in England and apparently he volunteered for service, he wasn't called up. i believe the merchant hip he was on carried cargo. I don't know dates but i suspect it was somewhere along lines of 1941-1942. I think he was discharged in 1943 as i have a record him him working on a farm in that year and i know from the ship sinking he was badly injured to point his family didn't recognise him when they walked by his bed. I looked into the National Archives in Kew, asking someone from there to look for his records but they could not. I'm not sure if they are not there or they didn't look right. I'm stuck where to try or how to go from here. I am desperate to get him the arctic star medal to honour him, but it's proving hard without his service number or anything as those documents are nowhere to be found in the house at all. many thanks sara
Hello and welcome Sara, I cannot see any online records for him but that does not mean he doesnt have any - not all are online. Next time you are at Kew have a look in BT 382/135. His CRS 10 (service record from Jan, 1941) should be held in that file if it has survived. Probably records prior to this date have not survived for your grandfather but there are other ways to find out what he did prior to Jan 1941. Regards Hugh
Hi Hugh Many thanks for the reply, I had someone look into the National Archives in Kew for me, just briefly, as i live in Scotland but they said they are unable to locate his record . I am not sure if it definately is not there or they did not look right. What happens if his record isn't there? The ship he was on definately sunk, surely there should be some record at least of the survivors of ship sinkings? I have attached a photo of my Grandfather, on the back of it , is dated 1941. It is the only date i have to go on, so i presume he was involved in Arctic `Convoys between then and 1943. Are there any other avenue i can look for information under. This is becoming a real bug bare, i don't feel i can rest easy until i get to the bottom of this. many thanks sara
Hello Sara, Of course there is the possibility his CRS 10 has not survived and without any other identifying information it would be difficult to research his service. Merchant Navy records are not the easiest to research if you don't know what you are doing. The file I have referenced is where his record will be kept, if it has survived. I would advise your researcher to look in it for his record. I could do a more thorough search for him if I knew his Discharge Number. I don't suppose you know it - prefixed 'R' followed by six digits such as R123456? There are also a couple of guys on here who will copy records for you for a very reasonalbe price should you need this quickly. That is a nice photo of him as a MN officer. Be positive you will find him. Regards Hugh
I'm afraid the information i have given already is about as far as i can go. I fear he may have put his own documents somewhere "safe" (he had dementia in his final years) and now we will never find them. i will contact the researcher i was using and see if i can get further. I have read the archives were split, is there any possibility his record could be in Southampton possibly? or Canada? kind regards sara
No, none whatsoever. His wartime records will be at Kew only crew agreements for pre-WW2 will be in Canada and records in Southampton cover the Fourth Register of Seamen 1918 - 1941. However, if a seaman was serving pre 1939 and was gong to serve during the war, his records would have been transferred to the Fifth Register of Seamen in the form of a seaman's pouch (held in Kew). Many pouches were destroyed and I cannot see one for your grandfather. Check out BT 382 and get back to us. Regards Hugh
Hi Sara, have you seen both birth & death certs for William? Just wondering if there is any hint of a middle name for him? There are a couple of possibilities in the merchant navy section on the findmypast website, but they lack the year of birth to narrow it down. But there are a couple of entries for the Ayr area. It might also be worth finding out where he was on the 1939 ID Census that was taken. If you suspect he was resident in Scotland in 1939 it will cost you £15 for a search. It will show you occupation and address in 1939. If you do a search of the English/Welsh records it costs £42. It's a long shot, but it might just give you that extra bit of info you need (if he was in the merchant navy by 1939). The following link will take you to the forms you would need to submit to request a search. Response from Edinburgh was fairly quick. http://www.1911census.org.uk/1939.htm
The names on FMP website come from the Fourth Register of Seamen effectively 1918-1941 and the original cards are held at Southampton City Archives. As I said in a previous post, if the seaman was intending to serve in WW2 then his records of service would have been transferred into the Fifth Register held at Kew and none should remain in the old register. As William Black served in WW2 it is unlikely any cards are with FMP. Regards Hugh
Many thanks for the replies. I will definately try the Census, and will get back to the guy i had going into Kew for me to have a thorough search... I know he had a war pension via Post Office. Is there any way i can trace back a service number or anything that way? I think i still have an account number although that was closed and pension transferred to my gran when he passed. I have both his birth certificate and death certificate as well. kind regards sara
