Finding a Bren Gun carrier T81050

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by wibs12, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. wibs12

    wibs12 Well-Known Member


    I've asked in the past for help researching my grandad's service and received lots of it...... am back for more please!

    His service record states he was a Bren Gun carrier Driver / Mechanic Class II (think it says Group D) also shows a misconduct charge for ..... "losing by neglect one crowbar from Carrier no. T81050.... placed under stoppages of pay to make good 3/4 of the full value of 6/6d!".

    1. Is there any way of using the Carrier serial number to get more info on the specific carrier; did it survive the war, history, location etc.
    2. What's the relevance of being a Class II (Group D) Driver / Mechanic i.e. as opposed to any other Class or Group

    zola1 likes this.
  2. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Seems petty to charge a person for a lost crowbar during WWII. And I wonder how the heck they determined it was neglect.

    Sorry, I don't want to sidetrack the thread. I hope you get the info you need.
    canuck likes this.
  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It was the British Army, Dave. Deducted 'Barrack Room Damages' even when they weren't in barracks and nothing was damaged. 'Just in case'

    Presumably he had used the tool (for track tensioning etc.) and not re-stowed it....It's unlikley to have happened in combat conditions. Probably on Home Service.
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  4. wibs12

    wibs12 Well-Known Member

    You're right Rich, it was on Home Service - whilst with the 2/4th South Lancs in Sep-42 at Capel le Ferne, Folkestone.

    Seems he didn't have a lot of luck with the Carrier from a conduct perspective...... entry Apr-43 whilst still with 2/4th South Lancs (but now based at Citadel Barracks, Dover) shows:

    "Negligently driving WD vehicle Bren carrier No T81050 thereby causing damage to WD property i.e. rail fence at side of bridge at south gate, and damage to the vehicle to the value of 3/-. Deprived 2 days pay"

    Any ideas re tracing the Carrier or difference in Class of D/M appreciated......
    canuck and Dave55 like this.
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    To my knowledge, all of the wartime vehicle allocation records were destroyed when the post-war registration system was introduced in 1948...If it was sold off post-war then it may turn up in sales catalogues or there may be a post-war Key card but it will cost you an enquiry to the RLC museum to find out. Lots of carriers went to 'friendly' governments at the end of the war and their departure is not recorded.

    I'm not 100% sure on the driver classifications. It is based on passing trade tests etc.

    A bit rough being fined for skidding a carrier on cobbles in a 19th century barracks with narrow gateways...
  6. wibs12

    wibs12 Well-Known Member

    Appreciate that Rich, ta..........
  7. idler

    idler GeneralList

  8. zola1

    zola1 Member


    Great post ..Very petty the army were, considering what was going on ! dad was docked 2 days pay for a Standing order on some unspecified job .. I’ve framed it for posterity.

    Hope you find what you are looking for .. might be a long run though.



    Attached Files:

    Dave55 likes this.
  9. wibs12

    wibs12 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the the link re trade groups / classifications, appreciated..... think the other element re tracing the Carrier may be a long shot too far.
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The carrier type may be in Watson's number lists.
    Away from books, with patchy internet, but will have a shufti next week if someone else hasn't found more by then.
    wibs12 and zola1 like this.
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Hi, Wibs.
    Sorry about the delay there.

    Volume 1 of Nigel Watson's Carrier books has T79947-T81346 as British produced 'UC 3" Mortar' (No Mark # given as on other Mortar references, so am assuming Mk.1 based) 1400 produced under contract T2249 by Sentinel Wagon.

    Chap on MLU found T80889 - same model from the same contract - in 09:
    Another Find T80889 by Sentinel Wagon - MLU FORUM
    Up for sale 5 years on:
    Heads Up: T80889 Mk1 1941 British Made Mortar Carrier - MLU FORUM

    6AARR has some nice Mortar Carrier stowage diagrams, though possibly a slightly different mark.
    Universal Carrier

    But Mike put some up here that may be the more precise type, & are very clear:
    Universal carrier - stowage schemes
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