Fighting withdrawal to St.Valery-en-Caux

Discussion in '1940' started by John Lawson, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. chesterflyer

    chesterflyer Member

    Andy thats excellent news as this has been a bit of a grey area for me as to what 1 2 and 3 platoons roles were. If 2 platoon were AA then what was 1 and 3 Platoon MT and Sigs????
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    According to Philson:

    No.1 was Signal Platoon

    No.3 was Admin Platoon
     
  3. chesterflyer

    chesterflyer Member

    Hmmmn so did MT form part of admin platoon??
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I thought it would be easier if I posted a few scans:

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  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  6. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    Well 'Drew, here's another fan-flippin'-tastic, this information puts the pre-and early war MG Bn ORBAT in order. Now I can build the names into an accurate ORBAT for my grandfathers' Bn with, of course, the help of Chester. I can't believe what a fantastic source of worthy information this site is (and it's good on the jokes in the Barracks! but no thread on drinking games and competitions with the RE, I've suffered!!)
     
  7. chesterflyer

    chesterflyer Member

    Good one Andy, that puts everything in perspective! Between John and myself I think we have about 60 men placed-ish! Just 600 more unknowns to find!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    I've re-read the Highland Division by Eric Linklater and was, once again, struck and moved by the closing statement with regard to the HD (and its attached units). Although I would believe that it would have held true for any British Division at the time, both Regular and TA.

    "But it is, on the whole, against a background of rout and sickness of despair that the performance of the 51st must be assessed, and the fact that signally emerges is that throughout its rearguard action and retreat the Division retained coherence. It remained a Division, and discipline ruled until the end. It had shown, both on the Saar and on the Somme, a finely aggressive spirit and great stubbornness in defence. It had discovered a remarkable unwillingness – incapacity is a better word – to admit defeat, though the odds were always heavy.

    Striking westward towards St. Valery had been 4th German Corps of two divisions forward, two in reserve; and in the left hook over the Durdent were a Panzer division and a motorised division behind.

    But against this impressive strength the Highland Officers, Non-commissioned officers and Private soldiers – and the many Englishmen who enlarged the Division – had revealed, again and again, their sense of responsibility and their gift of initiative. They were compelled to show an almost superhuman endurance.

    These are soldierly qualities, and they provide the substance for many heartening paragraphs in a history of misfortune. But what conclusively proves that the Division was a good Division, in spite of misfortune, is its continuing discipline.

    There is no sterner test of discipline than a long rearguard action, unless it be the sight of supporting troops who have been broken in the fight. The 51st survived those tests, and the Division remained a Division till the end. It had no luck – the dice were loaded outrageously against it – and so it failed to maintain the legend that its predecessor had made in the first German war, for a legend needs a little luck to help it grow.

    But the 51st had the other virtues of the old Division, and proof of this – that would prove the virtues of any division – that in spite of all its weariness and frustration of all its hopes, the failure on its flanks, and its grievous losses, its spirit was unbroken. It suffered many casualties, but not the fatal one.

    ITS HARD CORE WAS FIGHTING TO THE END, AND DISCIPLINE WAS THE LAST IN THE FIELD".
     
  9. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    Hello everyone,

    I know this is along shot but, whilst I am waiting for my year long queue at Army records to dwindle away and for my other request for info from the RNF museum to be attended to, could be several months, I thought "did 7RNF get a mention in other units diaries?" e.g. when they were attached or detached to/from other units within the Division.

    I have recieved the Bn diaries from Chester, unfortunately parts of them were lost at the end, due I believe, to document destructionby own troops before surrender.

    Thanks in anticipation

    John
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hello everyone,

    I know this is along shot but, whilst I am waiting for my year long queue at Army records to dwindle away and for my other request for info from the RNF museum to be attended to, could be several months, I thought "did 7RNF get a mention in other units diaries?" e.g. when they were attached or detached to/from other units within the Division.

    I have recieved the Bn diaries from Chester, unfortunately parts of them were lost at the end, due I believe, to document destructionby own troops before surrender.

    Thanks in anticipation

    John

    Hi John,

    I'll keep and eye out for you-You are most likely to get a good mention in brigade diaries rather than other battalion diaries.

    Can I cross you off the list as having now got 7 RNF's diary?

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  11. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    Hi Andy,

    I would say yes to that. Chester has agreed with me as to the fact that the really interesting stuff/dates would have been destroyed to avoid capture, oh dear! and thanks once again for keeping an eye out.

    How do I get onto Bde diaries - the same way as Bn? - and do you kow any reference numbers?

    Cheers,

    John
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    If you let me know what Bdes you are interested in I'll let you know the files ref numbers.
     
  13. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    Ah, ever vigilant,

    The Bdes are as follows:

    51st HD - 152, 153, 154.

    Cheers Andy

    Regards

    JOhn
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    WO 167/406 152 Brigade Headquarters

    WO 167/407 153 Brigade Headquarters

    WO 167/408 153 Brigade Anti-Tank Company

    WO 167/409 154 Brigade Headquarters

    WO 167/410 154 Brigade Anti-Tank Company
     
  15. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    Cheers Andy and thanks a load

    Kind regards

    John
     
  16. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    Before I go hareing off to Kew, does anyone have copies of the following:

    WO 167/406 152 Brigade Headquarters

    WO 167/407 153 Brigade Headquarters

    WO 167/408 153 Brigade Anti-Tank Company

    WO 167/409 154 Brigade Headquarters

    WO 167/410 154 Brigade Anti-Tank Company

    Both I, and Cheterflyer, and probably a few others out there, would be eternally grateful for any info that gets me closer to my close family and the extended family of the Regiment and also the history that keeps duty, honour and sheer 'bloody mindedness' in focus.

    Kind regards

    John
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Out of curiosity was Lt. Col G E Fenwicke-Clennell 7 RNF's CO?
     
  18. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    Out of curiosity was Lt. Col G E Fenwicke-Clennell 7 RNF's CO?

    Yes he was, Drew.:poppy:

    Do you know of him?:huh:
     
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No but I've found his personal diary at Kew :D
     
  20. John Lawson

    John Lawson Arte et Marte

    What a blinder!!!!!!!!

    It could be the only record after 31/5/40 worth reading.

    Without slavering too much, how can I get info from it?
     

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