English Channel & Home Waters 1944 - Operational Service

Discussion in 'General' started by RobM, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. RobM

    RobM Active Member

    Hi, would time served in navy or say Royal Engineers as part of the Inland Water Transport (IWT) working in engine room on tugs to transport Mulberry harbour around English Channel in preparation for D day be thought of and categorised as operational service (as defined for 1939-45 Star) ?
    I've heard that until September 1944 the Channel was still dangerous and prone to attack from the Germans.
    Thanks Rob
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Might be an idea to explain why you need to know - my guess is you are thinking someone should be awarded a medal, but which one?. You could always contact the MOD Medal office and ask them. You could obtain the persons service records which should tell you what medals they were entitled to, and its something the Medal office would look at to validate issue of medals

    Assuming the person is no longer alive then the MOD service records forms you need are:
    Request records of deceased service personnel

    For WW2 medals and there parameters - Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility - at the bottom of this link are the details for contacting the Medal Office


    TD
     
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  3. RobM

    RobM Active Member

    TD, I am awaiting the military records of my grandad (requested April 2020). In 1944-45 after transferring from RA he joined Royal Engineers IWT as a barge engineer working on tugs engine room and barges.

    I have some evidence he was likely in No 1 Port Construction and Repair Group at Marchwood 1944 maybe in rear or home group. They were heavily involved in the mulberry. I must await military records for clarification of course.

    The Medal Office were very helpful and professional and awarded my grandad (to my mum last year) the war medal and the defence medal. I had to produce his RE company war diary of 1945 (that he was attached to and named within) that I copied in Kew to appeal and show he had been with his company in Burma in several locations for 5 months, they then kindly quickly awarded him the Burma Star. Sometimes the individual military records are understandably not comprehensive, I have seen those of others in that/his company and they show in March '45 them deplaning in India no mention of Burma although the entire company arrived there shortly afterwards for 5 months.

    My intention is to write-up and remember my grandad for benefit of the wider family too. To also understand his journey and service better. As an aside it would be nice to receive the medal entitlement but this is secondary objective. For some units this is not straight forward as reading and interpreting alone just the military record. So I'm aware he had between 4 to 5 and a half months operational service in Burma (depending on which detail he arrived in as there were 4 groups) which will be clear once I have his record. So he is a just little short of the 180 operational days for the 1939-45 Star.

    I am aware of other barge engineers also attached with him to the unit in Burma (there were 13) who had the Atlantic Star as well as 1939-45 Star. This would indicate that they spent much time afloat as part of the "Army's Navy" Each individual's case of course if different so I need to await my grandad's records to see the exact company he was in in 1944 but it's likely he was afloat for at least several months.

    I did listen to a podcast the other week "We have Ways" where the excellent Stephen Fisher said that for the 3 months after D day the Channel was a very dangerous and perilous place hence I would have thought it would be classified as an operational area for time afloat but I wanted to see if there is any clarification of that definition. Sorry for the long winded background, but you did ask ! All the best - Rob
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Areas of operational service can be very tricky to delineate, there was I recall a thread on the Burma Star and service in Ceylon which wasnt in an operational area but go 3 miles off its east coast and you were in one, or something along those lines
    As far as I can see it all comes down to service records, war diaries and then requests to the Medal Office who, having dealt with them before, I have always found to be exceptionally helpful

    Problem perhaps is that if you are 1 day short then you are 1 day short, but if he was there for the time then he should be awarded a medal(s). I guess somewhere there are maps and dates for the various "operational areas" but I do not know where to start looking

    TD
     
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  5. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    4Jonboys's Husband's Dad served from D-Day (landed Juno Beach) and was an Officer with 966 IWT. They dealt with Rhinos. They left Cowes on the Isle of Wight for France on 4 June 1944.

    He was awarded the following and they have his service records, so the details are confirmed.

    1939 – 45 Star, France & Germany Star, War Medal.

    Hope that is of some help.

    This gives an indication of the conditions.

    "966 INLAND WATER TRANSPORT, ROYAL ENGINEERS

    Cowes, 4th June 1944

    Company embarks on LST’s, 9 craft loads to cover personnel at Cowes. Additional 6 craft loads needed to accommodate personnel to generate? Tugs which are being towed behind separate LST’s. 8 Rhinos behind 8 LST’s, 2 Tugs (T35 AND T71) towing behind their separate Rhinos.
    Tugs T11, T23, T47, T59, T83, T92 behind separate LST’s. One craft load with 961 Company, total craft loads 15.

    Cowes, 5th June 1944 22.00 hrs

    Convoy sets sail. Weather rather rough.

    At Sea 6th June 1944

    D-Day. T35 and T71, the two tugs towing behind Rhinos break adrift in early hours of the morning. T11 also breaks adrift.
    Convoy arrives off Courseilles-sur-Mer at 12.00 hrs approx.

    At Sea 16.00 hrs. Rhinos operate under bad weather conditions and without tugs.
    First loads disembarked on beaches at 17/00 hrs approx.
    F34 runs aground at 23.00 hrs approx.

    Courseilles-sur-Mer 7th June 1944:-

    Company biouvacked in Courseilles-sur-Mer. Weather still rough. At 22.30 heaving bombing and machine gun attack on biouvac area. A P Bombs being used. Casualties heavy, 12 killed and 31 wounded; 7 own Company. 1 killed (own Coy), and 15 wounded; 7 attached Pioneer 267 Company. Wounded evacuated to BDS (BDA?) and 33/34 FDS.

    966 IWT men killed 7 June 1944. All buried at Bayeux .

    BROCK, Ernest Thomas, Sapper 1502829
    BURNETT, Henry George, Sapper 14634458
    CAMPY, Harold, Sapper 1619857
    HILL, Ernest Francis, Sapper 14260580
    LAWRENSON, Leslie James, Corporal 2162409
    MAWDITT, Cyril, Corporal 6009458
    NEWMAN, Leonard George, Corporal 2162412
    RAPLEY, Lionel Harry Searle, Sapper 1804759"
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  6. RobM

    RobM Active Member

    TD, thank you, I agree the Medal Office have been outstanding. Very helpful and professional. The military records will not have all the info so I will need to refer to the war diaries when I know which company he served In in 1944. If he is short of the required time then that is fine, we are very proud of his service and just happy to learn more details around what he did and where he ventured ! Rob
     
  7. RobM

    RobM Active Member

    Thank you Buteman, very interesting and helpful.
     
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