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Electric cars: have you got one?

Discussion in 'The Lounge Bar' started by SteveDee, Nov 10, 2025.

  1. SteveDee

    SteveDee Well-Known Member

    Yep, we are all gonna die!

    UK-Grid.png
     
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  2. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    What we do is we all get racing pigeons and take them with us wherever we go and however we travel then UK Gov knows where we are at all times.

    FlightPathTracker.png


    PS. Or, mobile phones replace car keys and have an app which adds up the miles and pays tax through Apple Pay. etc., direct to Whitehall.

    PPS. If the mother-in-law kidnaps the driver to take her Christmas shopping it might be considered unfair, but this tax collection scheme is less messy than keeping a racing pigeon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2025
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  3. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    The bottom line
    Most people who work hard juggling jobs catching the 5:20am bus to a job they dont like with no hope of owning a property and struggling to find a place to rent and being clobbered by taxes will never have the luxury of owning an EV or even a car. Whilst many will have saving the planet on their minds somewhere on their radar the main concern is day to day living.
     
  4. Wobbler

    Wobbler Patron Patron

    Those the things that switch off when it’s windy?
     
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  5. Wobbler

    Wobbler Patron Patron

    To be fair, that’s actually true. ;)
     
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  6. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    The wind turbines will take care of the pigeons. :huh:
     
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  7. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Or the cat will get the racing pigeon, and both are "chipped", in the moggy's case more firmly than the pigeon.

    Cut out the middle creatures and we'll all have our chips soon.
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    We've been doing really well here, chaps, re. not getting too poolitickal.
    Some leeway granted, but let's watch ourselves as the wider topic is 1000% innately that.

    And now I'll probably screw that hope over while trying to go a smidge wider and desperately trying to stay on technology alone.
    Ah well, the POWER obviously corrupts.

    I'm amused by persistent reference to renewables as 'free'.
    They're no more free than the fossil stuff.
    The infrastructure/installation/upgrade/repair/maintenance costs are massive, and the interconnection required (Not done. At all.) are absolutely enormous. Like... alarmingly so, the deeper you dig. F-ing huge.
    They're just another system. Not some magical free toy.
    Panels and turbines have a worryingly short life, with prices to be paid (To add to Dave's comment above - offshore turbines can require 1500L of oil that needs regular replacement) and that gets near-universally glossed over with a wave of the evangelist's hand.
    The mass battery storage required to make any renewable truly efficient or grid capable is also decades away. Currently, TBH, an absolute pipe dream.

    So that 'Free' thing...
    If doing panels & batteries at a residence - brilliant - can absolutely be worthwhile. Standard panels currently c.£65 (China...) and efficiency improving fast. Bit of a shock for ancilliaries as the current vogue is for a controller on each panel (c.twice the panel price, but replaceable & very useful for monitoring efficiency & fixing/spotting faults) & domestic batteries remain somewhat eye-watering.
    (If going solar at home: I've come to the conclusion large/serious batteries are essential. Zero point without, and there's still a lot of zero storage installations out there. Though, lordy... also seen some installed in roof spaces & even living rooms that give me the absolute willies.If that Lithium glitches... well...).
    Single property solar - crack on. Good chance of investment return.
    (And botching some panels on to run your garage is increasingly worth a punt/an interesting learning experience. - Caveat: Just don't, unless you really understand it, or have a mate that does, Or do... I'm not your mum.)

    And, yet... It just doesn't 'yet' 'quite' scale up to the commercial and industrial world.
    I've seen some straightforward high-energy-demand massive solar installations on light commercial stuff that made immense sense, and reduced a firm's electrickery bill to almost nothing, with large investment paid off in a few years, but it doesn't yet work for much you can class as 'heavy'.
    I don't think Solar/Wind is innately bad, but I do think we're 10-20 years out from the technology being widely worth legislatively throwing a nation's entire energy demands at.

    Immature.
    Technologically, and sadly often philosophically.

    So to swing back to EVs.
    There's what I see as a persistent myth that they're cleaner/eco.
    Are they? Or are they just moving the 'dirty' bit to a different place while pretending everything's great? (I know what I think. Choosing to not elucidate in detail. Cough-marketing wank-cough.)

    Immature technology.
    Intermediate, even.
    Not quite 'there' yet.


    Anyway. :unsure:.
    Sodium density creeping up.
    Some genuinely interesting stats on Na availability/price/safety out there.
    'We' may be backing a pup with Li.
    No. Really.
    Quite possibly a bolt shot, by virtue of a certain hysteria, before something actually worthwhile has hardened.

    We may be in that Intermediate Technology era here, where an A1E1 was seen as the way forward, when in fact Centurion was just around the corner.

    2010-2028.
    IWM-KID-109-Vickers-Independent.jpg

    2027-ish+?
    YTZUbln.png


    Who knows...
    Though I have solid suspicions.
     
  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    For now
    upload_2025-11-29_19-24-55.png
     
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  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Aye, to some extent (as per everything trendy/new/marketing wank).
    And yet... Mortgage paid within a couple of years.
    (We shall live like KINGS!)
    Suspect panels might be the first splashing out as we have a lot of roof, and secure/safe place for batteries. More cynical about other electro-upgrades, and can replace blown windows myself. :unsure:
    (Remember 'Fit the best. Everest!'? - hahahahahaha - my arse, grr. etc. I'm sort of glad Ted Moult did what he did. The liar.)

    Will be practising on a mate's place over the next 12 months.
    Heating engineer, but wants to build sand battery, solar etc. And knows some high end Sparks to advise.
    We shall see.

    ralph-wiggum-learnding.gif



    Sand batteries...
    I don't really care if efficient on a small scale without a geothermal feed.
    Just want to build one, really.
     
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  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Should maybe add.
    To counter the cynicism.

    Recently fitted an air Heat Pump at a single older chap's bungalow.
    Ignoring those pump complexities, though...

    He's had (High end) solar & batteries for a couple of years.
    Showed us his electrickery bill...
    £1.30/month.
    In Winter.
    So...
    Y'know...

    I'm a terrible cynic, but still subject to logic.
     
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  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Torchy the Torch Boy.




    AXA UK warns of solar panel fire risk
    With solar panels blamed for three significant fires across the UK last year, and many more attributed to the renewable energy source,
    In 2024, fires directly attributed to solar panels included a Lidl warehouse in Peterborough, a seven-storey block of flats in Lewisham and a school in Cramlington. The blaze at Shanklea Primary School prompted Northumberland County Council to disconnect solar panels at 80 other schools and numerous public buildings due to safety concerns.

    AXA UK supports its customers in the transition to renewable energy sources and has published new guidance for commercial customers to help them manage the risks associated with photovoltaic systems - those that are powered by solar panels. These include fire due to poor installation or incorrect equipment, damage from weather-related incidents and overloading roof structures with too much weight.
     
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  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Come to the conclusion it's a small risk, despite having stood on a roof with a thermal camera & watched the blue smoke form.
    Cowboys, though... No accounting for cowboys... (It 'appears' simple. It isn't, really. Maths. etc.)

    This sOLaR pANelS oN eVeRY sCHool thing, though...
    Not just meaningless low-hanging-fruit wank with very questionable logic beyond the policy front, but I do wonder at quality of install over tens of thousands of schools, given relatively few 'grown-up' installers.
    Sneaky feeling it may not end well. Or at least do reputational harm beyond the truth, for pretty much zero logical gain & at crazy expense.
     
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  14. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer Pearl Harbor Myth Buster

    About twenty years ago someone posted that "windmills are killing our birds!" Proof? They counted dead birds near windmills. Okay, how many dead birds did you count that were NOT near wind mills? If you can produce a spike I'd be interested.

    BTW, the wind mills in question were south of Chicago, glacial plains great for windmills. Not much for birds to roost on with that much height, they must have "thought" they were seeing an ideal roost. Well above cats' reach.

    The poster declined to do a valid survey of dead birds within 100 miles of the windmills. Pity, would have kept her from posting silly-billy on the internet.
     
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  15. SteveDee

    SteveDee Well-Known Member

    20years on, and you will find proof now.
    I could never understand why a bird would be stupid enough to fly into the blades of a wind turbine, rotating at what, 10rpm? Surely it could just fly over it, or even through the gaps in the blades!

    Turns out that I'm the stupid one. They don't fly face-on and die. Its when they approach end-on that they don't see the danger.

    Last year we went down to the southern tip of Spain on a birding trip, during the autumn mass migration (Europe to Africa). Its a spectacular sight as very large birds like white storks, vultures & eagles gather in the sky & head to the African coast.

    Its also a great place for wind turbines, but the company that operate them have people watching the sky for bird activity. When they spot flocks of these large birds moving towards danger, they shutdown individual turbines until the danger has passed.

    BTW: being an [retired] engineer, this set me thinking; how do you stop a windmill turning?
    The answer is you tilt the angle of the blades.
    You do not stand on the brake pedal (it would make terrible mess).
     
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  16. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    What I mean is that you're already paying a far higher cost than petrol or diesel for electricity charged on HPCs along the road, so adding another layer of tax on it is just insane. Even if the data comes from the car, you are still adding to that.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  17. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    It's a one-off. Wind turbines obvs use energy and cause GHG emissions for manufacturing/construction. They pay that back in a year or two. The next 23 years of their life they reduce GHG.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  18. SteveDee

    SteveDee Well-Known Member

    Without being political (...I don't have your power vP) let me say that the whole CO2 thing has became a battle: Science vs pseudo science.

    But there are 2 environmental issues with dirty fossil guzzlers that are [hopefully] not so contentious.

    I'm talking about local environmental issues; the first is pollution of the atmosphere due to NOx & particulates. The second is noise pollution.

    The first is having an impact on the physical health of everyone, the second is having an impact on the mental health of those unfortunate enough to be exposed to it, day in, day out.

    Up until 3 years ago (actually to the day ...happy anniversary!) we lived in a family house that backed onto a busy dual carriageway, where we raised our 3 boys.

    While we can now open windows to let in cleanish air, back then we would see the buildup of little black specs on the inside windowsill. The buildup was greater on the ground floor than the 1st, & greater on the 1st than the second floor. What this exposure to pollution may mean for our kids life expectancy, I do not know.

    I'm really too old school to talk in terms of my mental health, but using 1960s terminology: the noise from the traffic drove me 'kin bonkers!

    In the early days it was mainly motorbikes & tired old trucks. But more recently it was [still] motorbikes & the 'Subaru boys'.

    Now I know some of you are going to say that you love the sound of a roaring engine. Well done! If you live in a quiet street, let's swap houses.
    Actually, no need. Our new house is in a super quiet area (all hail the god of pension pots)

    But my point is, we can push the CO2 debate to one side. As far as local pollution is concerned, EV goes a long way towards fixing these 2 problems.
     
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  19. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    I know you're kidding, but those are actually arguments often made by people who want to delay the transition. So here's a serious response. :)

    We don't actually. A simple back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that the extra electricity that will be required for all road transport in the UK to be electric is not substantial and will still result in less electricity being used in the country than 20 or so years ago. To power 30,000,000 cars to drive 6,000 miles per year you need about 60 TWh of electricity. Let's add 20% for system and charger losses, so 72TWh. The UK consumed 285 TWh in 2024 and 398 TWh in 2005, so you're adding 25%/18%ish of that). So adding this still leaves substantial headroom to electrify goods transport, before we even get back to 2005 power consumption. United Kingdom - Countries & Regions - IEA

    Many people don't realize how amazingly efficient BEVs are, compared to ICEVs.

    As an aside, electrification with renewables will benefit the UK macro-economically, as it will reduce the need to pay for oil imports (yes the UK is a net importer: United Kingdom - Countries & Regions - IEA), so the current account deficit will decline. Oil is almost only used in road transport. Every BEV reduces import needs of oil by 3.66bbl of oil per year, or USD219 @USD60/bbl. For 30 million cars, that's £6.6bn, or 2.5bn if you assume 38% of oil is imported, so about 9% of the current account deficit.

    There are no more operating coal-fired power stations operating in the UK, BTW. Lights are still on.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  20. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Trained to colour between the lines.

    On complimentary tech.

    Adam have a look at Thermal battery using phase change materials for your mate and his tech playhouse.

    Put an number of installation for a major water company on remote sites a few years back - most cost effective way to run was found to be time shift on grid consumption. Initially it was to provide hot water for hand wash/shower but expanded to do frost/anti condensation in panel rooms and last iteration was to extend winter range of ev vans by providing alternative cab heating.

    Thermino ePlus - Sunamp UK

    Ross
     
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