DEMS gunners

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by bLACKCOUNTRY MON, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. bLACKCOUNTRY MON

    bLACKCOUNTRY MON Active Member

    Has anyone any statistics concerning DEMS gunners, especially how many were used in WW2 and how many lost their lives. Any information will be greatly appreciated.
    Terry
     
  2. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi Terry,

    I have a lot of information on DEMS in my files.

    There were about 24,000 Royal Navy DEMS gunners - nearly 5000 were killed.
    There were about 14,000 Army DEMS gunners - 1222 were killed.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  3. bLACKCOUNTRY MON

    bLACKCOUNTRY MON Active Member

    Many thanks Hugh, the information is much appreciated.
    Regards
    Terry
     
  4. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    Not having heard of DEMS gunners I looked it up, now know a little bit more. Related to this, I wonder if any of the fishing trawlers used in minesweeping activities were armed too?
    There was a thread recently about the crew of a fishing trawler being taken captive by a German ship, and they were asked if their trawler was armed.
     
  5. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Tricia,
    Admiralty trawlers had their own gun crews (RN). Some fishing trawlers were armed with a couple of Lewis guns and had a DEMS gunner.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  6. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    Thanks Hugh - always something new to learn on here.
     
  7. oddsods

    oddsods Active Member

    Hi Hugh...... I'm new to this site
    My father was a gunner with the RA. Initially with a L/AA regt but somehow he wound up as a DEMS gunner for a short time. He
    was unfortunately aboard The Mohamed Ali el-Kebir ( troop and supply ship ) when it was torpedoed by U38 about 250 miles of the coast of Ireland. He spoke of the fact that all they had were six of the old water cooled Lewis guns and one 4" HE for defense. My father was the only Gunner to survive many other lives were lost......
    Regards Vic
     
  8. oddsods

    oddsods Active Member

    Hi All,
    I just tried to post this but it dissapeared....who new !!.....
    Re DEMS gunners...My father was with the RA, a L/AA regt, but somehow was posted as a Dems gunner for a short time...I say short because he was unlucky enough to be aboard The Mohamed Ali el-Kebir as his first assignment. The ship was a troop and supply ship in convoy headed for Gibralta
    Dad spoke to us regarding the fact that their total defensive armament amounted to six of the old water cooled Lewis guns and one 4" HE gun....On August 7th 1940.... the ship was torpedoed about 250 miles of the Irish coast by U38.... I don't know how many DEMS gunners there were on board but dad was the only one to survive...of 896 personnel on board 130 were lost...following his survivors leave, he was back with his L/AA regt and off to Burma.......You Lucky Lads.

    Regards Vic.
     
  9. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hello Vic.
    The casulties by name don't mention any as DEMS gunners. There were 6 RN lost and the army casualties were shown as those who were embarked on passage. I presume that your father was the only designated gunner picked up by HMS GRIFFIN and landed at Greenock on 9th August. You would need to look at the last crew agreement and the casualty returns to determine who were the designated gunners. Those gunners, army and navy, would have signed the Aritcles of Agreement as part of the ships crew distinct from the others who were travelling as passengers.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  10. oddsods

    oddsods Active Member

    Hi Hugh.....As Tricia said always more to learn......
    Would you happen to have access to the lists you mention in your post......if so is there mention of gunner William H Barnes RA
    #1539973....here's hoping.

    Regards Vic.
     
  11. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi Vic,
    Sorry I only have the names of those Maritime Royal Artillery gunners who never made it home.

    If you can get to Kew you should obtain a copy of the last crew agreement for MOHAMED ALI EL-KEBIR, formerly ss TENO, official number 162373 for the year 1940.
    This file will hopefully have a list of her crew including those who served aboard in the capacity of military DEMS. They will usually be shown as AF (armed forces) or Deck Hands and they were paid a nominal sum by the ship owner for legal reasons.

    The file should be held in piece BT 381/1070

    Another interesting file would be WO 361/7

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  12. oddsods

    oddsods Active Member

    Thanks for the info Hugh ......I might have a little difficulty getting to Kew, as I live in Canada LOL.....Thanks again Hugh..your efforts a appreciated.
    Regards Vic.
     
  13. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Your're welcome Vic. Sorry I never noticed that you were from Canada. The files would be too expensive to obtain online via Kew but, should you wish, there are a couple of guys on here, Lee Richards and Drew who will copy the files for you at a very very reasonable price.

    Regards
    Hugh
     

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