DEMS gunner losses

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Steve49, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Hi Hugh,

    Thanks for that. Yes I believe the two destroyers recovered about 600 survivors before they were in turn sunk. In addition to the loss of most of the survivors, I have 156 crew lost from HMS Diamond and 106 crew lost from HMS Wryneck.

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  2. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Gents,

    Tuesday 29th April 1941

    EVELEIGH, Thomas P, Lance Corporal, Army, 3970859 (Welch Regt), killed [PlyM]

    Probably lost with S.S. Ambrose Fleming in the North Sea. Lloyd's says 10 crew and 1 gunner lost, CWGC lists 10 crew.

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  3. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve,
    Just to confirm your thoughts

    EVELEIGH, Thomas P, Lance Corporal, Army, 3970859, age 21, Welsh Regt, killed 29 April 1941 (AMBROSE FLEMING).

    Regards
    Hugh
     
    Steve49 likes this.
  4. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Gents,

    Sunday 4th May 1941

    WILCE, Cyril, Private, Army, 3969066 (Welch Regt), killed [PlyM]
    WOODLAND, Charles J, Private, Army (Welch Regt), 3969248, killed [PlyM]

    The same regiment, so presumably lost as a team, but no obvious ship loss to place them on.

    Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  5. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve,

    WOODLAND, Charles J, Private, Army, 3969248, age 27, Welsh Regt, killed 4 May 1941, (MARIE-FLORE).
    WILCE, Cyril, Private, Army, 3969066, age 27, Welsh Regt, killed 4 May 1941, (MARIE-FLORE).

    The answer lies in the book: "DE BELGISCHE KOOPVAARDIJ IN DE TWEEDE WERELDOORLOG" By R MACHIELSEN.
    I have just translated half of the story but they were both aboard the Belgian ss MARIE-FLORE.

    On May 4, 1941, the Marie-Flore left Barry Docks with a cargo of coal and joined the convoy bound for the southeast coast of England.
    The weather is fine with a light northeast wind. Around 11pm the convoy is off Trevose Head. In the darkness, one hears the irregular roar of numerous aircraft approaching from the southwest.
    The Marie-Flore has four machine guns; two on the stern manned by gunners Wilce and Woodland and two on the bridge manned by bosun Van Audekerke and a sailor.
    The planes come over the convoy and with a hell of a roar they dive down and bomb the ships. Machine guns rattle on all the coasters and flares fly crisscross through the air. Many bombs miss their target and explode in the water, and huge columns of water spray up alongside the ships.
    The Marie-Flore receives a full hit on the stern: a crackling explosion follows, deadly splinters fly around and the two British gunners are killed instantly.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  6. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Hi Hugh,

    Thanks for that, an amazing find.

    Regards

    Steve
     
  7. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Hi Gents,

    So back to my other 'work'.

    Friday 9th May 1941

    ALDERMAN, Stanley J, Gunner, RA, 5620037 (4 Maritime Regt), killed [PlyM]
    HORNBLOWER, John J, Gunner, RA, 6463043 (1/4 Maritime Regt), killed [PlyM]
    HUGHES, Frederick J, Gunner, RA, 6447002 (1/4 Maritime Regt), killed [PlyM]
    MOGGRIDGE, John, Gunner, RA, 6969835 (4 Maritime Regt), killed [PlyM]
    STABLES, Robert, Gunner, RA, 1656576 (4 Maritime Regt), killed [PlyM]

    Possibly lost with the sinking of Empire Song. Lloyd's says '18 missing (2 gunlayers, 10 lascars and 5 military)'. CWGC identifies 11 crew and 2 RN gunners, so its possible that the Army gunners were the '5 military'.

    Any thoughts?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  8. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve,
    In my database - all were lost aboard EMPIRE SONG.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  9. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Hi Hugh,

    Thanks for that.

    Regards

    Steve
     
  10. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Gents,

    Wednesday 14th May 1941

    KENISTON, Albert E, Gunner, RA, 5575290 (6/3 Maritime Regt), killed [ChM]

    No clear loss. Maybe lost in a none hostile/shipping incident. Only possible ship incident would be when Cape Horn was damaged (4 crew killed). Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  11. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve,

    KENISTON, Gunner, ALBERT EDWARD, 5575290, 6/3 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS Rabaul) 14 May 1941. Age 27. Son of George Henry and Bessie Elizabeth Keniston; husband of Mrs. Keniston, of Wells, Somerset. 50, 3.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  12. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Hi Hugh,

    Thanks for that. Not sure how I'd missed Rabaul. I see Lloyd's says 9 killed and 1 POW from 54 crew and 4 passengers. I have 6 crew and 2 gunners (Gnr Keniston and AB Eyers RANR), I guess the final casualty was a passenger.

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  13. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    I can account for 6 crew and 2 gunners and the PoW - apprentice Bruce Murray Wharton. No passengers were lost.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  14. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Gents,

    Sunday 25th May 1941
    CUNLIFFE, Frank, Gunner, RA, 3716297 (6/3 Maritime Regt), killed [ChM]

    Probably lost with S.S. Helka. Lloyd's says 1 crew and 1 gunner lost.

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  15. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve, to confirm.

    CUNLIFFE
    , Gunner, FRANK, 3716297, 6/3 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS HELKA) 25 May 1941. Age 29. Son of Mrs. Cunliffe, of Bradford, Manchester. 50, 3.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  16. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Gents,

    Friday 6th June 1941

    STILL, Roy S, Private, Army (Northamptonshire Regt), 5889122, killed

    HYNE, Richard E, Gunner, RA (4/2 Maritime Regt), 5123369, killed

    Probably;

    One lost with Queensbury. Lloyd's says 10 crew and 1 gunner lost, CWGC lists 10 crew.
    One lost with Glen Head. Lloyd's says 27 lost from 36 crew, CWGC lists 23 crew and 3 RN gunners.

    Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  17. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi Steve,
    I can confirm one and tend to agree on the other.

    HYNE, Gunner, RICHARD EDWARD, 5123369, 4/2 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS GLEN HEAD) 6 June 1941. Panel 61, Column 3.

    SS QUEENSBURY last crew agreement should be held at Kew in piece BT 381/1582 under the ship's official number 162488. Hopefully Pte Roy S. Still is shown on the articles of agreement.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  18. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Hi Hugh,

    Thanks for that. I've added the Queensbury crew articles to my Kew list. I thought I'd be able to visit on the 10th after finding that I'll be in London for the day, but unfortunately under the new system where you have to book a place, the first available slots were on the 11th! Next time I hope to visit will be at the start of November, if I do, I'll let you know what I find out from the various BT381 documents you've suggested.

    Regards,

    Steve
     
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  19. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Gents,

    Friday 30th May 1941

    DERRICK, Harold J, Lance Bombardier, 1565140, (4 Maritime Regt) [BATH (HAYCOMBE) CEMETERY]

    No obvious shipping event and with his place of burial being ashore would seem to indicate a none shipping related loss. Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  20. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi Steve,

    I have him on my database but not much to add except he died in Preston Hospital.
    DERRICK, Lance Bombardier, HAROLD JOHN, 1565140, 4 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. 30 May 1941. Age 26. Son of Mr. and Mrs. Arthur Derrick, of Bath; husband of L. M. Derrick, of Corsham, Wiltshire. Grave Ref. Plot 52. Sec. F. Row S. Grave 267.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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