DEMS gunner losses

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Steve49, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Pretty sure that's him TD.
    The ship was attacked near St Govern's Light Vessel but she made port on 27th [Milford Haven] his death may have been registered there.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
  2. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    It looks like CAB66/15 is correct and there were no casualties in the attack on KARANAN.
    Captain Groenhof, master of KARANAN in his report stated: "The number of crew, including 2 Military Gunners and myself, was 11 and there were no casualties - looks like another Lloyd's blunder.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  3. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Friday 6th September 1941

    CAMPBELL, David M. Gunner, RA 1439107 (7/4 Maritime Regt), killed [PAISLEY (HAWKHEAD) CEMETERY]

    Lost on this date. Only possible shipping event I can identify is tanker Stanmount which was damaged by an air attack in the North Sea. So was he killed in this attack or was his death due to an accident/illness? Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  4. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve,
    There appear to be no losses during the bombing of STANMOUNT.

    Only have his cemetery details in my database as per below:


    PAISLEY (HAWKHEAD) CEMETERY, United Kingdom
    CAMPBELL
    , Gunner, DAVID McA., 1439107, 7 Bty., 4 A.A.Maritime Regt, Royal Artillery. 6 September 1941. Age 19. Son of John and Sarah Campbell, of Paisley. Grave Ref. Sec. P. Grave 630.

    Below attached suggests he died rather than was killed. I don't think he died at sea.

    CAMPBELL.PNG
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: David Campbell
    Given Initials: D A
    Rank: Gunner
    Death Date: 6 Sep 1941
    Number: 1439107
    Birth Place: Paisley
    Residence: Paisley
    Regiment at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
    Branch at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
    Theatre of War: United Kingdom
    Regiment at Death: Royal Artillery
    Branch at Death: Royal Artillery


    UK and Ireland, Find a Grave Index, 1300s-Current
    Name: David McA Campbell
    Death Date: 6 Sep 1941
    Cemetery: Hawkhead Cemetery
    Burial or Cremation Place: Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland
    Has Bio?: N

    If lost at sea the Roll of Honour usually states as Theatre of War - 'Lost at sea', plus I would guess its difficult to bury or cremate someone if you dont have the body, which of course is still possible if lost at sea

    Also there is only 1 Campbell mentioned on the CWGC database for Sep 1941 but that was on 26th
     
  6. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Tuesday 23rd September 1941

    MCKAY, Ronald, Gunner, RA (1/1 Maritime Regt), 2824966, killed [PoM]
    RUBERY, Frederick, Gunner, RA (1/1 Maritime Regt), 7045885, killed [PoM]

    WO166/3387 lists Gnr McKay as an accidental death, but doesn't have an entry for Gnr Rubery. I see coaster Arawak was lost due to a fire on this date. Did this incident result in the loss of any gunners or were their deaths related to different separate incidents? Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: Ronald McKay
    Event: Death
    Death Date: 23 Sep 1941
    Death Place: S. S Glenwood At Sea.
    Ship: Army and Air Force Personnel
    44994_adm_104_113-0272 (2).jpg

    States - drowned
     
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  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Frederick Rubery
    Given Initials: F
    Rank: Gunner
    Death Date: 23 Sep 1941
    Number: 7045885
    Birth Place: Worcestershire
    Residence: Worcestershire
    Branch at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
    Theatre of War: At sea
    Regiment at Death: Royal Artillery
    Branch at Death: Royal Artillery
     
  9. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...


    Thanks,

    I've now seen that Gunner Rubery was lost in the sinking of St Clair II (on the 24th September).

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  10. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve, just to confirm.

    McKAY, Gunner, RONALD, 2824966, 1/1 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (ss GLENWOOD) 23 September 1941. Age 25. Son of Mr. and Mrs. John McKay, of Paisley, Renfrewshire. Panel 61, Column 2. – I have him listed as accidentally drowned, Santiago De Cuba, between 11pm 21 September and 1am 22 September 1941.

    RUBERY, Gunner, FREDERICK, 7045885, 1/1 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (ss ST. CLAIR II) 23 September 1941. Age 29. Son of Thomas and Sarah Rubery, of Stourbridge, Worcestershire. Panel 61, Column 2.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  11. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Listed in WO166/3387 as prisoners of war.

    Noted as their capture being reported on 6th April 1941, so lost in the days/weeks before this date.

    Pte James ROSS (3194748)
    Pte W. WOOD (3194807)
    Pte Jack VERNON (3456272)
    Pte John VARLEY (3777304)
    Pte Jack GARSIDE (3460640)
    Pte Clifford WRIGHT (3777307)
    L/Bdr Harry HOWARTH (1544193)
    Gnr W.G. CITRINE (1543491)
    Gnr John M. NAYLOR (1522189)
    Gnr Martin MURPHY (1599156)
    Gnr Thomas NIXON (1523197)
    Gnr R. SCULLY (3449978)

    Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947Name: James Ross
    Gender: Male
    Age: 27
    Birth Date: abt 1914
    Death Date: 16 Mar 1941
    Cemetery: Naval Memorials In The United Kingdom Plymouth Part VIII
    Burial Country: England
    Regimental Number: 3194748
    Region or Memorial: Memorial Register
    Father: Hugh Ross
    Mother: Jane Ross

    No POW details either so might be worth you checking CWGC to see who is on there or not


    Name: Walter Christie Wood
    Gender: Male
    Age: 26
    Birth Date: abt 1915
    Death Date: 16 Mar 1941
    Cemetery: Naval Memorials In The United Kingdom Plymouth Part X
    Burial Country: England
    Regimental Number: 3194807
    Region or Memorial: Memorial Register
    Other Records:

    I'll leave the rest to you
     
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  13. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Cheers,

    Should have thought to check CWGC before believing the document!

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  14. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Listed in WO166/3387 as prisoners of war.

    Noted as their capture being reported on 6th April 1941, so lost in the days/weeks before this date. I've checked CWGC and none have a listing, so all appear to have survived the war.

    Fus Jack VERNON (3456272)
    Pte John VARLEY (3777304)
    Pte Jack GARSIDE (3460640)
    Pte Clifford WRIGHT (3777307)
    L/Bdr Harry HOWARTH (1544193)
    Gnr W.G. CITRINE (1543491)
    Gnr John M. NAYLOR (1522189)
    Gnr Martin MURPHY (1599156)
    Gnr Thomas NIXON (1523197)
    Gnr R. SCULLY (3449978)

    Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Looking at Vernon are you 100% sure of his service number -

    UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
    Name: Hector Westwell
    Gender: Male
    Death Date: 5 Aug 1943
    Cemetery: Catania War Cemetery It. 2
    Burial Country: Italy
    Regimental Number: 3456272
    Region or Memorial: Italy
     
  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    See post #109
    The Lincolnshire Regiment
     
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  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: J Varley
    Rank: Private
    Army Number: 3777304
    Regiment: The King's Regiment
    Camp Type: Marlag Und Milag Nord
    Camp Number: Marlag und Milag Nord
    Camp Location: Westertimke, Lower Saxony
    Record Office: Infantry Record Office, The Public Hall, Lune Street, Preston, Lancashire
    Record Office Number: 18

    UK, World War II Allied Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: J. Varley
    Rank: Pte.
    Military Date: 1939-1945
    Regiment: Kings
    Service Number: 3777304
    48741_b429193-00450 (2).jpg

    Name: J. Varley
    Rank: Pte.
    Military Date: 1939-1945
    Regiment: Kings
    Service Number: 3777304
    48741_b429203-00498 (2).jpg
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    There are 3 Jack Vernon I have found

    UK, World War II Royal Artillery Tracer Cards, 1939-1948
    Name: Jack Ralph Vernon
    Enlistment Date: 30 Sep 1940
    Regiment: Royal Artillery
    Military Unit: Searchlight
    Service Number: 1698569
    He survived the war and was never captured

    and

    Name: Jack Vernon
    Enlistment Date: 5 Jun 1947
    Regiment: Royal Artillery
    Military Unit: General Service Corps
    Service Number: 19177538

    He also survived the war and was never a POW

    and

    UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
    Name: Jack Vernon
    Gender: Male
    Death Date: 1 Jul 1942
    Cemetery: Naval Memorials United Kingdom Part X
    Burial Country: England
    Regimental Number: P/JX 275045
    Region or Memorial: Memorial Register
     
  19. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    The last one was a DEMS gunner (HMS President III), he was lost when Marilyse Moller was sunk on 1st July 1942.

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  20. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    upload_2021-12-7_11-23-23.jpeg

    Unfortunately my picture is slightly blurred regarding the serial number for Fus Vernon.
     

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