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Deir el Shein sources - July 1942

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by Tom OBrien, May 17, 2023.

  1. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Redundant now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2024
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  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles Patron

  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    All the links to the articles by Tom Fairweather are working now (as below) and thanks to Charley for the spotting of his obituary (to be added to my research notes).

    Up to and including Deir el Shein: https://greatbentleyparishcouncil.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/March-2021-magazine-Web.pdf

    Two parts for afterwards: https://greatbentleyparishcouncil.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/April-2021-magazine-Web.pdf and https://greatbentleyparishcouncil.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/May-2021-magazine-Web.pdf
     
  4. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Thanks to the contributors to a separate thread: War diaries needed July 1942 1st Alamein I have further researched what happened to the support given by the 1st Armoured Division on 1/7/1942.

    Below is what I have assembled to date.

    Several references were found for this lack of support and are mentioned here. There are fuller accounts elsewhere, only one was identified initially by Major C.E. Lucas Philips, 2iC, 121 Field Regt., and was partly read.[1] He wrote: ‘Such was too often the fate of a lone and unsupported ‘brigade group’ of those patchwork days.’ The South African ‘Official History Crisis in the Desert: May - July 1942’[2] states: ‘The story of the armoured battle is not easy to disentangle.’

    I have tried to assemble what happened on 1/7/1942, first the wider context is given

    British tank numbers on 25/5/1942 had been 849[3], the time of the Battle of Gazala[4], where they lost 200 tanks (plus the 150th British Infantry Brigade @ Dahar el Aslag[5]) and four field regiments. Others cite 200 tanks lost on 12/6/1942, another 30 on 17/7/1942 and 540 lost in total. By 26-27/6/1942 there were 159 tanks left (including 60 Grants). On 1/7/1942 the 8th Army had 150 tanks (or 179), only the 20 Grant tanks were capable of defeating German armour.[6] The 2015 article adds: ‘Tank loses were huge, regiments were reduced to squadrons…1 RTR and 6 RTR (with Grant & Honey tanks) were also joined’. Rommel started his attack at Gazala on 26/5/1942 with 500 tanks.[7]

    A WW2talk member adds[8]: ‘The period from 26 May 1942 through the start of Alamein on 23 October 1942 was a time of a great deal of change in orders of battle and command. In many cases, individual squadrons, companies and batteries would be reassigned multiple times in short periods. He provides the Order of Battle of 1st Armoured Division at the start of Gazala on 26 May 1942.

    The division had three brigades before 1/7/1942: 4th and 22nd Armoured Brigades and a Motor Brigade (infantry, artillery and engineers).

    They passed to 30th Corps Command (from 15th Corps). They were ‘dog tired’ after three days of fighting and moving eastwards. On 30/6-1/7/1942 their vehicles, especially trucks and guns were stuck in sand that day and disorganized. There was no phone cable to Corps HQ and the radio link was poor.[9]

    What happened?

    Elements of the division advanced towards the 18th Indian Infantry Brigade’s position, from the south the 4th County of London Yeomanry (4CLY), supported by 1st Royal Tank Regiment (4 RTR) and to my surprise the 6th & 8th RTR from the north. I use surprise as this move is not well known, it is little documented.

    There is a 4CLY officer’s account[10] for the 1st July 1942: ‘At midday we were ordered to withdraw and all that day we moved east; having passed through the minefields south of El Alamein we leaguered (laager) at 11 o’clock that night near the railway with orders to go into Army reserve, to everyone’s relief. But at dawn the next morning this order was cancelled and the Regiment was ordered to move south at once on to the Ruweisat Ridge, and north again at midday to support the 1st South African Division, who were being attacked by enemy tanks. We had not been there long when we were ordered to move south again and then 6 miles west, this time to support the Indian Brigade, and that evening we got into a short but heavy engagement.’

    The 4 CLY War Diary[11] states: ‘In the afternoon moved 4 miles North to cover South African Bde box against a threatened tank attack. Later moved South again to original position and about 1800hrs ordered 6 miles West to assist an Indian Bde box against an attack by enemy who had penetrated the minefields. The situation of the box was evidently very insecure on our arrival and the Regt was formed up on the South side of the box facing SW to meet a tank attack coming in from that direction. Guns and tanks moved forward under enemy smoke-screen.

    1st RTR Stuarts arrived on our left flank and turned back an attempt to outflank us.

    About 20 minutes before last light enemy guns were reported being hauled into position to attack our right flank - the move was only made possible by the failure of the box to hold the enemy attack from the NE. At this point Col Arkwright dismounted in order to discuss the situation with the Brigadier over the rear-link set in the Adjutant's tank. Whilst on the back of the Adjutant's tank he was hit and killed by an AP shot. The command was taken over by Major Scott, who ordered a withdrawal Eastwards with the concurrence of Bde.

    Leaguered about the point from which we had started, 6 miles East of the scene of the action.

    Col Arkwright was buried near the leaguer at map ref 887278.’

    Brigadier W.G. Carr[12], 22 Armoured Brigade, gave (undated) evidence[13] to the later ‘Court of Inquiry’:

    1/7 1716hrs 22 Armoured Brigade received news from 1st Armoured Division that the 18th Indian Brigade 'were in a precarious position at Deir el Shein and they were to move to their assistance.'

    (I) despatched 4 CLY who met a LO (Liaison Officer) from 18th Indian Brigade outside the box, but they were at once themselves engaged by enemy tanks from the south and spent the rest of the afternoon dealing with them. During this time Lt. Col. Arkwright[14] was killed.' 1 RTR moved to support 4 CLY; both were engaged by enemy tanks on the northern flank which had overrun 18th Brigade.(Ends)

    The South African ‘Official History Crisis in the Desert: May - July 1942’[15] is now cited:

    1st Armoured Division was ordered up to the eastern end of Ruweisat Ridge at 1200hrs. The 4th Armoured Brigade was stuck in soft sand and when 30 Corps ordered the division to assist 18th Indian Brigade, the only tanks available were eighteen “runners” of the 22nd Armoured Brigade. ‘the armoured cars of The Royals[16], confused perhaps by the sandstorm, reported that all was quiet at Deir el Shein, and 22nd Armoured Brigade took no action. It was not until the order was urgently repeated at 1630hrs that the 4th County of London Yeomanry (4CLY) advanced and engaged the German tanks close to the Box.’

    The 4CLY attacked 15th Panzer Division, who had failed to penetrate the Gurkhas on the south-east sector, from the east and fell back. 4CLY reported to have driven off the German armour and ‘reported that large numbers of the Indian Brigade could be seen escaping to the east. They had fulfilled their orders and were (not timed) ordered by 1st Armoured to return to their (nighttime) leaguer (laager) at the eastern end of Ruweisat Ridge. En route they probably clashed with 21st Panzer Division, who claimed to have driven off an attack. 1st South African Brigade reported that twenty Valentine tanks[17] stayed that night within their perimeter.

    4CLY were supported by 1st Royal Tank Regiment (1 RTR) and 8th Royal Tank Regiment (8 RTR), the later’s presence is shown only in 6 RTR’s War Diary. Neither 1 RTR or 8 RTR were assigned to 22nd Armoured Brigade at the time.[18]

    1 RTR came under 22nd Armoured Brigade at 1230hrs 1/7/1942; with thirty-three Stuart tanks and were ordered to support 4 CLY on their left.

    Citing 1 RTR’s War Diary[19]: ‘Enemy withdrew on appearance of our tanks, who immediately commenced to follow up the enemy’s withdrawal.’ One tank was lost and another badly damaged. At 2200hrs they formed leaguer in approx.. area. 389278.

    The northern advance is only found in 6 RTR’s War Diary[20] and is cited in full for 1/7/1942:

    0200 – Orders to continue march

    0500 – Regt reached minefield and went through gap, then ordered by Bde to change course to 140° for 3 miles, where Regt halted. All RHQ tanks now crock, and going was very soft for B vehicles.

    0800 – Regt moved North and took up positions with A Sqn forward and patrol overlooking main road. Not able to do much maintenance as Regt was on 5 minutes notice to move.

    1600 – Regt moved out and took up positions about 1½ miles NW of Bde HQ, C Sqn right, B Sqn left, D Sqn reserve.

    1700 – Report of 20/30 enemy tanks in area 876284. 8th RTR moved forward to deal with them.

    1715 – A Sqn patrol reports information from O/P that enemy Infantry and A/Tk guns North of Pt. 33, on pushing forward came under fire from these and withdrew again.

    2030 – Orders for Regt to rally in 1st RHA area.

    2100 – CO returned from Bde, Regt is to move 6 miles South with RHA, helping to tow their tractors and vehicles through the bad going.

    2359 – Regt moved off with 1st RHA.

    Attention is drawn to this entry: 1700 – Report of 20/30 enemy tanks in area 876284. 8th RTR moved forward to deal with them.

    Thanks to Andreas for his help and the map[21] below (added 6/10/24).

    Screenshot 2024-08-03 at 16.14.29.png Screenshot 2024-08-03 at 16.14.29.png

    The accuracy of a six-digit grid reference is only to the nearest 1,000m on a 10km grid map.

    There are a number of six-digit map references for the position of the 18th Indian Brigade @ Deir el Shein:

    1) There is a British Army six-figure map reference given for Deir el Shein: 876283. A RAF document later in July 1942 used: 876281.

    2) 1 Armoured Div. reports ‘876280 now quiet’ (Deir grid). From 30 Corps WD.

    Question: How far would 876284 have been from the 18th at 876281 or 876283?

    Andreas replied: The map is 1:250,000 wartime map, as would have been used by the troops. Black Cross = 876280 (1 Armd. Div.) Red Cross = 876281 (RAF) and Green Cross = 876284 (6 RTR War Diary German tanks) although it would be better to show these as squares with a length of 1,000m centred on the grid reference. So 876284 is between 3,000 - 5,000m from 876280, straight north.

    Note Pt. 33 is shown on the map and 6 RTR War Diary refers to: 1715 – A Sqn patrol reports information from O/P that enemy Infantry and A/Tk guns North of Pt. 33, on pushing forward came under fire from these and withdrew again.

    Comment: It is unclear whether 8 RTR *** were in the frontline that day. No online sources readily found.

    WO 169/4006: XIII Corps (G Branch) June to August 1942 has a strange, undated, one pg. diary entry from 1st Armoured Division ‘German attacks on Deir el Shein 1/7/1942’.[22]

    At 1420hrs the New Zealand Division received the codeword ‘Hindu’ which indicated the Indian Brigade had been attacked and in spite of their confirmed dislike of small-scale operations, acted. A small column, with two field gun batteries, two anti-tank troops, a MMG platoon, and a platoon of carriers moved out at 1400hrs. They returned at dusk; accounts differ whether they fired upon the Germans.


    [1] His critique of the lack of support by 1st Armoured Division. Is in his book ‘Alamein’, pub. 1962 and last republished 2021; it remains on sale and has many excellent reviews. 10% of the book is online. See: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alamein-Major-Battles-World-War-ebook/dp/B08T9RV2K2/ref=sr_1_16?qid=1694263521&refinements=p_27:C.+E.+LUCAS+PHILLIPS&s=books&sr=1-16&text=C.+E.+LUCAS+PHILLIPS&asin=B08T9RV2K2&revisionId=7f359d7b&format=1&depth=1

    [2] From the South African ‘Official History Crisis in the Desert: May - July 1942’ by J.A.L. Agar-Hamilton and L.C.F. Turner. See scanned pgs. Post 15: Deir el Shein sources - July 1942 (Pgs. 299-300; Images 2173-2175)

    [3] Orders of Battle of British Tank Forces, and the tank types at key dates in the Western Desert 1940-42 by Colin Robins, in the Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research 93 (2015), pgs.48-59. Available, after registration, on: https://www.jstor.org/stable/44232677

    [4] From: ‘Alamein’ by Jon Latimer, pub. 2002; Chris Chant refers to 682 tanks being available (plus 167 Grant tanks) and lost 540. See: Aberdeen | Operations & Codenames of WWII

    [5] See: 150th Infantry Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

    [6] From: The role of the 1st South African Division during the FIRST BATTLE OF EL ALAMEIN, 1-30 JULY 1942 by Colonel (Dr) C J Jacobs, published 1974. See: FIRST BATTLE OF EL ALAMEIN - South African Military History Society

    [7] Op. cit. 524.

    [8] See: 1st Armoured Division at Gazala

    [9] From a later three pg. report by the division’s C.O., Lt. General Lumsden in WO 201/537. 1 Armoured Division: report on operations in Western Desert | The National Archives For report see Post 14: Deir el Shein sources - July 1942 Background on author: Herbert Lumsden - Wikipedia plus Biography of Lieutenant-General Herbert Lumsden (1897 – 1945), Great Britain

    [10] Pgs. 84-85 in 'Men and Sand' by The Earl of Onslow, first published 1961 and facsimile 1999. Text appears in Post 153 in: Deir el Shein sources - July 1942

    [11] Originally found on: War Diary of 4th Country of London Yeomanry 1943

    [12] See: 7226 William Greenwood CARR, CVO, DSO*, MiD, Royal Armoured Corps He had been a 4 CLY officer.

    [13] From WO 106/2235 Operations in the Western desert 1942 May-July: court of enquiry report Vol.II | The National Archives and copied to Post 250: Deir el Shein sources - July 1942

    [14] Lt. Col. Francis Godfrey Bertram Arkwright, 31864, of the 12th Lancers, died on 1/7/1942 and his body was not recovered for burial. See: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/f...ls/2119211/francis-godfrey-bertram-arkwright/ Jephson's book on the fighting the next day @ Ruweisat Ridge, has a short history of the 3/4th CLY (as the unit became later), which is available via Google Books, which indicates they had been repeatedly mauled and were a fraction of themselves. There is a thread on him: 31864 Francis Godfrey Bertram ARKWRIGHT, DSO, MC, 12 Royal Lancers, Royal Armoured Corps: 01/07/1942

    [15] From the South African ‘Official History Crisis in the Desert: May - July 1942’ by J.A.L. Agar-Hamilton and L.C.F. Turner. See scanned pgs. Post 15: Deir el Shein sources - July 1942 (Pgs. 299-300; Images 2173-2175)

    [16] The only Royal prefixed unit in the brigade, was the Royal Gloucestershire Hussars (RGH), except they had Stuart tanks. It is more likely the attached Recce Corps formation, 50th Recce Regiment (note Wiki states it was withdrawn in June 1942). From: 22nd Armoured Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

    [17] At that time the brigade had a mix of Crusader and Grant tanks. The RGH had Stuart tanks.

    [18] See: 22nd Armoured Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

    [19] From: War Diary of 1st Royal Tank Regimemt 1942

    [20] TNA 6 Royal Tank Regiment | The National Archives Refers to WO169/4509 and the details are from Post 13: 6th Bn. Royal Tank Regiment

    [21] Which appears in Post 23: War diaries needed July 1942 1st Alamein

    [22] See Post 91: The Essex Regiment 1929-1950 History and Divisions: 1 Armoured Division: G. Branch (Armd Div) | The National Archives
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2024
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  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Thanks to Andreas for 8 RTR War Diary for 1/7/1942, see attachment.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    A very useful IMHO document added by Moula-Moula, cited in part:
    From: 11th (Honorable Artillery Company) Regt RHA
     
  7. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Update on Post 297 by Charley Fortnum about a Major E.A. Hawkins, who possibly had a role on 1/7/1942.

    Thanks to Charley, a Charles (from Essex Regt.), Connie and a volunteer researcher, Essex County Museum he has been fully id'd as Edgar Alan Hawkins, of the 1/4th Essex Regiment and Service Number 58999. See attached document for his history.

    He was a liaison officer from the 18th Indian Brigade to General Norrie's 30 Corps HQ on 27/6/1942 - from Lt. Col. May's account (C.O. 2/5th Essex and Acting Brigade C.O.). Afterwards he disappears and is known to have been at Ruweisat Ridge on 2/7/1942, probably with 1/4th Essex, when he was hospitalized.

    I had hoped he might have remained with the 18th Indian Brigade on 1/7/1942 and written an account.

    After some additional help I have deleted the previous attachment and replaced it (on 4/11/2024).
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 4, 2024
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  8. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Thanks to Andreas for finding a 2017 online article by Professor Niall Barr, adding it to his website and a "taster":
    Then the "hidden" battle:
    From: 1st Alamein – the crucial days

    The cited 'General Charles Richardson' was an 8th Army staff officer, a Lt. Col. in July 1942. See: Charles Leslie Richardson - Wikipedia

    Barr's focus is on the general aspects, so Deir el Shein and the 18th Indian Infantry Brigade are not mentioned. HE has written a book on the North African campaign, which is cited here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2024
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  9. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles Patron

    Good luck with managing to register, locate useful files and stay logged in; I managed it in the end, but it's 'page-by-page' screen-grabbing work.

    Names, ranks and units to be harvested from both.

    War Diary of HQ 18 Indian Infantry Brigade 1941


    Abhilekh Patal

    War Diary of HQ 18 Indian Infantry Brigade 1942
    Abhilekh Patal

    The latter probably an inferior copy of:

    Reference:
    WO 169/7637
    Description: Brigades: 18 Indian Infantry Brigade: HQ
    Date: 1942 Jan.- May, July.- Sept.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2024
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  10. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Found these two brief documents in a 2/3rd Gurkha Rifles Intelligence Report file. No stories found!

    Screenshot 2024-12-11 at 4.49.05 PM.png Screenshot 2024-12-11 at 4.49.38 PM.png
     
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  11. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    David,

    Alas the current Indian Army successor unit for 2/3 QAO after an initial welcome and we could help - have added nowt.
     
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  12. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Attached Files:

  13. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    An update for Post 309 by Charley F. on the Indian Archives online option. I tried to register and was defeated.

    His experience with registration was that you cannot copy and paste into the username or password box, and so no 'password manager / auto-fill' function in your browser will work—you have to type them out manually in full. Secondly, once in there is material there that has not survived at Kew, particularly for base units resident in India and those active in the Burma theatre. The auto-generated text is full of errors owing to the poor quality of the scans, so there may be more than would only be revealed by a laborious trawl.
     
  14. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Back to TNA 'Discovery' to find a few files that may need a look at / commissioning a TNA visit:

    WO 169/3356 Brigades: 18 Indian Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (HQ) June-December 1941. Brigades: 18 Indian Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (HQ) | The National Archives

    WO 169/7637 18th Indian Infantry Brigade: HQ January-May 1942 and July-September 1942. Brigades: 18 Indian Infantry Brigade: HQ | The National Archives Previous research suggested a WD did not exist for 1/7/1942.

    Update: A check - in mid-January 2025 - with the Indian National Archives via their online facility found the two files were each of 200+ pgs. and the summary does not refer to Egypt!

    WO 169/3357 18th Indian Infantry Brigade: Transport Company 1942 Jan., Feb.,Apr.- Aug. Brigades: 18 Indian Infantry Brigade: Transport Company | The National Archives

    WO 106/2233 Action of 18 Indian Infantry Brigade at Deir El-Shein: report July 1942 Action of 18 Indian Infantry Brigade at Deir El-Shein: report | The National Archives This report is Lt. Col. May's 1944 report, after his POW escape and has been covered previously.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2025
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  15. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles Patron

    davidbfpo

    It just struck me that there's another minor seam to explore.

    Although I've never managed to get my hands on a copy, there was a regular 4th/5th battalion Association Magazine/Newsletter called 'Knife, Fork and Spoon' that ran in parallel with 'the Eagle' for a while. I know they definitely published memoirs and reminiscences from members, but I'd only ever focused on the '4th' aspect, not the '5th'.

    It would seem likely that the Essex Regiment Museum would hold copies.
     
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  16. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Charley,

    Thanks I will ask the museum!
     
  17. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles Patron

    Keep me posted--there's at least one article I know I would like to see from the publication.
     
  18. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles Patron

  19. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Update as I have commissioned a TNA researcher to examine the following files, with a focus on the days before the battle and afterwards:

    WO 169/7637 18th Indian Infantry Brigade: HQ January-May 1942 and July-September 1942. Brigades: 18 Indian Infantry Brigade: HQ | The National Archives Previous research suggested a WD did not exist for 1/7/1942.

    A check - in mid-January 2025 - with the Indian National Archives via their online facility found the two files were each of 200+ pgs. and the summary does not refer to Egypt!

    WO 169/3357 18th Indian Infantry Brigade: Transport Company 1942 Jan., Feb.,Apr.- Aug. Brigades: 18 Indian Infantry Brigade: Transport Company | The National Archives

    This week I hope to access three books held locally; Michael Carver's 'Out of Step', 'The Sound of history' by Richard Doherty and 'The Early Battles of the Eight Army: Crusader to the El Alamein Line 1941-1942' by Adrian Stewart.
     
  20. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Alas not much in WO 169/7637 18th Indian Infantry Brigade: HQ July-September 1942. It contains two sheets regarding the Movement Order 21/6/1942 for the start of the brigade’s move to Palestine, it lists the number of British officers, British Other Ranks, Indian officers (known as VCO) and Indian Other Ranks (though the Gurkha OR number is very small).

    It has a very short summary of the action on 1/7/1942: the brigade was holding a “box”, attack launched 0830hrs, 1400hrs the enemy penetrated the position and by 2000hrs the “box” was overrun. Missing were: Acting Brigade Commander (Lt. Col. Charles Edward Gray), Brigade Major (Captain Edward Neville Mumford), DAQMG (Deputy Assistant Quartermaster General), S.C. (possibly Signals Captain: name not known) and the Acting Brigade Intelligence Officer (name not known).

    On 15/7/1942 it refers to 2/5 Essex Regt. ‘had been reduced to a cadre’ (elsewhere there is a reference to twelve survivors at a Roll Call). By August-September the two Indian battalions were posted elsewhere and the brigade was disbanded.

    WO 169/3357 18th Indian Infantry Brigade: Transport Company 1942 Jan., Feb.,Apr.- Aug. It lists their officers on 8/6/1942, so before leaving Iraq as: Lt. Acting Major T.F. Faulkner, Lt. Acting Captain R.V.N. Hutchinson, 2nd Lt. Acting LT. B.W. Woodley and 2nd Lt. Acting Lt. I.S. Rana (none fully id'd'). They had 150 vehicles, mainly 3-tonners and on 3/7/1942 they were quickly moved to another formation.
     
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