Death of German POW

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by noggin1969, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Unfortunately, that was the wrong Stuempel.
    In the area there are about 20 with the same family name.
    I now found one which is involved in ancestry.
    Keep your fingers crossed.
    It is a bit like the needle in a hay stick. And there are several hay sticks (names) to go for.
    Stefan.
     
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  2. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    My History of the POW camp system based on original testimony 'Convicted for Courage' by Kevan Pooler (my pen name) starts with the death of POW from Camp 52 Nether Headon:


    He cycled towards Retford. He felt freedom. He felt peace. He felt the wind in his hair. As the lane from Rampton weaved down the steep Idle Valley side, with no need to pedal, did he fly? Did he spread his wings and fly?


    He flew headlong into an oncoming bus ... and died.


    His death will go unreported, but it changed my life.


    In the middle of England, in the middle of summer, in the middle of the war, what could the British public be expected to feel about the loss of one enemy, when his countrymen are still mowing down ‘our boys’ in their hundreds?


    Back at Camp 52 Nether Headon Prisoner of War Camp, Palmiro La Banca felt the loss as sadly ironic. Many of his thousand or so fellow Italian prisoners at Nether Headon had been reluctant combatants in the folly of Mussolini’s empire building adventure in North Africa. Indeed, many had been captured without firing a shot – there had been no shells to shoot. A hundred and thirty thousand of them had been captured by the British, who had no need to even disarm them.


    Capture took them out of the war and mostly out of harm's way.


    HE WAS ALMOST CERTAINLY from the list, thank you:

    Caporale Maggiore CAVAZZA, GUIDO Italian Army Died 22/10/1943 was buried in Plot 16 Row O Grave 6. of East Retford Cemetery is almost certainly the POW killed on his bike.

    Palmiro La Banca who was at the camp and came back after the war, told me 'Boy killed in camp' and this above was all he knew. Palmiro arrived in April 1943 and asked to be billeted out sometime after capitulation of June 43 to Portland Farm at Egmanton. Before being sent home they were recalled to Little Carlton Camp near Newark - 22 huts on aerial photo. (One of 5 Newark camps not on the English Heritage list.)
     
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  3. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    I did not get any further. I just hope his family knows all about where he had his last minutes. RIP Albert:poppy:

    Stefan.
     
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  4. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    Nothing in the local papers about Cavazza at all.
     
  5. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    Thanks Noggin - saved me the next job. I did go through the Retford Times, early in my research (4 years 5000 files) to see if Prisoners of War and the local camp was ever mentioned - NOT ONCE! There was a single story which mentioned a German POW. A poor man was arraigned at Retford Court for stealing a children's toy. His defence was that he had been looking in bins round Boughton POW Camp, Ollerton, Christmas time 1945 or 6, and saw a painted wooden toy. He left it, but on his way back he looked again,and saw it was still there. A German POW saw him and said 'Take, take.' so he did. He put it under his seat on the bus and the conductor dobbed him in. The Judge threw the case out, asking whoever thought this was not a waste of police and court time.
     
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  6. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    The only 3 I found listed in the papers were the accidental shooting of a German POW at Boughton. 1 German POW killed in RTC ( cycle v lorry ) at South Muskham and another RTC ( cycle v lorry ) at Retford. This was mainly due to a young local lad in a trolley attached to the cycle was also killed.
     
  7. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    Thanks, I saw your texts about these - well done.
     
  8. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    Sorry - I only looked in Retford Times. Not sure where you found the reports. I could have scanned over the odd mention on microfilm. Most reports I've seen say '[escape/murder etc] form camp in [north of England/Sheffield] ' sort of thing.
     
  9. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Hi all,

    some time ago I posted the story of a young Wehrmacht private, wounded and captured by US forces. POW in the US at first and when asked, would you like to go back to Europe, eventually was sent to Scotland working on a farm.
    Soon returned home to wife and kids in East Germany, I Interviewed himand made a connection with the family in Scotland and the kids of this farmer were so very positive about Gottfried and would have loved to see him again. Unfortunately he was not fit to travel and later died at the age of 100 +
    A very positive man, loved both the cotton fields in the US and Scotland of course.
    Stefan.
     
  10. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    Obergefreiter Otto Hanisch: Died from heart failure, registered at Nether Headon.
    Obergefreiter Georg Sturmer: Body found at POW Hostel, Misson, Nottinghamshire. Death due to heart failure.
    Oberfaehnrich Albert Stuempel: Body found Oldcotes, Nottinghamshire. Death due to heart failure.
    Caporale Maggiore Guido Cavazza: Found drowned, Misterton.
    Caporale Guiseppe Rasconi, Italian Army. Died No7 Camp, Clowne, Chesterfield due to an Asthma attack.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  11. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    three soldiers dying of heard failure. one knocked over by a bus. Very sad RIP
    Stefan.
     
  12. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    Three soldiers dying of heart failure - all mid to late 40's.
     
  13. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    Caporale Maggiore Guido Cavazza: Killed when his cycle collided head on with a bus on the Rampton to Retford road.
    NO - Sorry Noggin, The Boy on the bike I was told about by an ex POW I STILL HAVE NOT FOUND. There is a chance that he was taken East into Lincolnshire and died there.

    I sent for his death certificate:
    Caporale Maggiore Guido Cavazza: was found in a land drain found to have drowned, not other evidence so given an open verdict. He was a cook at Nether Headon Camp, working as Farm Hand Near, Misterton on the North Notts border
     

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  14. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    Quote Noggin "Caporale Guiseppe Rasconi, Italian Army. Died No7 Camp, Clowne, Chesterfield due to an Asthma attack."

    I then sent for Guiseppe's Death Cert - about same time you uploaded your details, Noggin.

    Where did you get No7 Camp from, please? Clowne Camp/Southgate is one of many not found on the E Heritage list of German Camps. I've been working mainly on POWs relative to Notts, and assumed Guiseppe was a Nether Headon man.
    Home
     

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  15. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    (Aha - just found out how to put quote in!)
    Great how these details fill out the wider picture. I believe all of these (possible Rasconi exception) were to do with Nether Headon. The "Standard Camp" for the whole of North Notts, from South of Newark, the other being the triple Standard Camp at Wollaton Hall, in the very south of Notts, almost in Derbyshire.

    All the many camps in N Notts including Misson, (sometimes in Yorkshire), plus Lea Hall, Gainsborough which is in Lincs, and 'Wigsley' which was not at Wigsley, but a few miles away at Drinsey Nook, and Thorney Hall nearby, are and were in Notts, but were Headon Satellite Camps. Source May 1946 Re-Education Inspection report of Camp 52 Nether Headon Camp in National Archives.
     
  16. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    Great that you have these as camps - not on lists. I have found that all of them were overseen or were Satellites of Camp 52 Nether Headon. My main German contact Arnold Rahn was sent to both Boughton (Ollerton) and Newark to work; 'My' Italian, Palmiro LaBanca was 'recalled to camp' for sorting for repatriation in early 1946 and that was Little Carlton - at least 22 huts - because Headon itself had been cleared of Italians by October 1944 when it was 'opened' for Germans. (Re-Ed inspection report 1946)

    I've got photos of Caunton, Aerial of L Carlton, Winthorpe on Map + house there still is Mess.
    I haven't found any detail on Sconce - have you? There was a leaflet about The Sconce's history but it sold out...
     
  17. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

  18. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    Damn - I've got that - I even use the photo, but overlooked the No.7. Thanks and sorry. I wonder where they got the No.7 from - I wonder if it's Derbyshire's No.7?
    The Hayes, Swanwick was their big one, Sudbury Camp; Nether Heage Camp, Belper; New Drill Hall, Clay Cross; Alvaston, Derby; Weston-on-Trent, Derby; Weston Camp, King's Newton were the only ones Thomas found for English Heritage. There must have been more in the northern half of such a rural county.
     
  19. noggin1969

    noggin1969 Well-Known Member

    I haven't found any detail on Sconce - have you? There was a leaflet about The Sconce's history but it sold out...

    I believe the camp was only for Italians and wasn't used for long. The whole area was part of Royal Engineers camp from what was Boundary Rd to the Valley Prospects Estate. Most of it now covered by Hawtonville (Bailey Rd named after Bailey bridges made in town and used by the RE's) and Riverside Rd. The football fields, which were part of the pre war golf course are still there. So I think they may have been housed in some of the army blocks.
     
  20. Kevin Murphy

    Kevin Murphy Member

    No I didn't find it but your details clarify that I haven't missed anything:
    From the bottom left SW corner of Winthorpe Airfield where there was a small POW camp which yes, I only know of it as Italian, and the house on the traffic island was the Mess Hut according to Newark Air Museum host.

    The article about the booklet on The Sconce says:
    "The guide tells how, during the war, Sconce Hills was a camp for German and Italian PoWs, and an anti-aircraft gun was built just north of the Queen’s Sconce.
    It also contains pictures by the German prisoner of war, Dr Wolfgang Scheffler, and some of the memories of local people who lived near the camp.
    One man recalls how, as a child, he used to be told off by his grandmother for taking cakes from her tin and giving them to the PoWs."

    I think that trustee German POWs were housed in the army blocks you refer to. Arnold Rahn was based for a time in the Royal Engineers place where they were collecting in and recycling plane wrecks. He intimated that it was where Brownhills caravan place is still. (White roofs on my picture.) Makes a lot more sense that it was Hawtonville - huge area and as you say the RE.

    Nice little tie-up, thanks.
    if you want to share stuff on email I'm kpm2@talktalk.net
     

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