Hello all. Sorry for the multi-query thread. 1) I'm looking for a possible earlier thread on this site that provides a breakdown or explanation on the codes applied on large blackboards on the ships sides as they cross the channel back and forth. I have an example from a photo of SS Flathouse. Code reads 369 on the first line, while the second reads SS 31 WH. I seem to recall that it indicates an inbound to the beach area or outbound back to the UK, with possibly the specific beach WH = White? I've looked several times without success here using various search words. Any help would be greatly appreciated in finding it here (or on another site?) Second query relates to the 369 number. I have seen numerous ships with what I'm assuming are unique ship identifiers. I know many of the blockships had them. Is there a master list of these numbers out there. I recognize these are not the formal ship UK pendant numbers or US ship hull numbers. Again, any help greatly appreciated. Finally I have attached a link to a website that lists some loading tables and LTIN numbers. D-Day - Omaha Beach - Loading Plan Would the US numbers be possibly duplicated by UK numbers? I had seen someone say Landing Serials were allocated in the following Ranges Sword - 100 to 999 Juno - 1000 to 1999 Gold - 2000 to 2999 Follow up 3000 to 3999 Thanks all. Peter
Hi Peter, If you go to Resources on this site, you will see the Merchant Ship Numbers for Normandy. I will look up my notes and try to find what the other numbers on Flathouse's blackboard meant. Regards, Roy
Peter, I can't find my notes on the additional numbers/letters. These were build-up convoys most of which discharged at the Mulberrys, not the beaches. I seem to remember that the codes indicated cargo/priority/destination etc - hopefully someone else will know. Roy
I'm afraid Flathouse's Movement Card does not tell much of a story. As from April 44 she was 'On Special Service' in the remarks column it says: '1747 7/4 S.T./M.C.B.3. Store Service S L 156 T98A'. I can't be absolutely sure of each digit as the writing is rather crabby. As you may know, you can download Movement Cards from the TNA FREE! for the present, so you might like to try to decipher it yourself?
Thanks for the initial response. I hope others will chime in. Here is another clearer pic of the board and numbers in question in the upper left corner. Peter
Hi Peter, 1. Ships' Number Boards: ON 13 App VIII has the answer: WH is a cargo code not listed above but seen on other ships' boards as well. 2. Link to Roy's great list of ship serial numbers here 3. The 'someone' who first spelled out the Eastern Task Force LTIN blocks was member DannyM, and yes, there is some duplication with the (US) Western Task Force, which used the 'unabridged' (read 'more complicated') system of different LTINs and Ship/Craft Serials. The latter coded the actual vessel while the LTIN represented a load, several LTINs being possibly loaded into the same Ship/Craft Serial. The ETF however chose to equate the LTIN with the Ship/Craft Serial (ie only one load per vessel - except LSI with carried minor craft). For example, Force O used the following LTINs: CT 116 LTIN 1001+ CT 16 LTIN 2001+ CT 18 LTIN 3001+ Div Tps Force LTIN 4001+ Michel
Michel. Thanks for the reply on the various topics and attachments. is the ON 13 Orders available online as a full document somewhere? A Google search wasn't much value. And typically,a response leads to more questions. The third pic depicts the "174" as a number in the M.W.T. (Ministry of War Transport?) register. Any ideas on this register? Available anywhere? Is it a forever changing list with numbers re-assigned or just appended to at the end. Is this how Roy derived his list? Thanks again. Peter
Peter, M.W.T = Ministry of War Transport The Register mentioned is possibly in PRO 17/287: Ministry of War Transport: General Register and Record Office of Shipping and Seamen | The National Archives Michel
The numbers came from three separate lists, which I must have copied at the PRO, though I am ashamed to say I never kept a record of the file numbers. The lists are captioned 700/Q(M)11 OVERLORD STORE COASTERS AND MT COASTERS; CODE NUMBERS OF COASTERS ALLOCATED TO OPERATION OVERLORD (there are various numbers below that I cannot read) and 700/Q(M)11 (again numbers that I cannot read) (US Allocation). This last file covers ships MT201 to MT294. All marked Top Secret. Many thanks to Michel for solving the rest of the puzzle - for some reason I can't post a 'Like'
I didn't see an answer to the availability of the ON 13 Orders. Most welcome if it can be offered. I was wondering how the Gooseberry blockship number fall into some overall system. I think I've accounted for some 64 numbers between 117 and 678. I've attached a pic of 504 assigned to Alynbank. Also the whale units have the three digit numbers (507 and 564) in the pics., along with the whale type tow. I know in the case of 507 that it is a B1 type train, but what does the preceding A denote? Again a many thanks for the responses. Lots of knowledge out there.
The NEPTUNE Naval Orders for the ETF are on fold3. If you compare the list of numbers you now have, you will find that the Blockships numbers apparently are independent from the MWT Ship code numbers, because there are instances of the same number being allocated to different ships, one a GOOSEBERRY Blockship and the other a MWT ship. I suspect that the the "A-" prefix simply means MULBERRY A. See your photo of 564 with prefix "B-". Michel
Michel. Thanks. The "A" makes sense. Now need to see if I can find a "B" photo to confirm. I'm sorry, can you be more specific on the Orders, "fold3"? I assumed in Resources, but I didn't see and a search didn't appear to find anything. Is it just me?
Page 1 in WWII War Diaries - Fold3 Too late for this one: Bonhams : WORLD WAR TWO - OPERATION NEPTUNE Top Secret. Operation Neptune: Naval Operation Orders (Short Title: ON), Allied Naval Commander-in-Chief, Expeditionary Force, 10 April 1944; and 3 others (4) Michel
twinotterpilot, Since the Naval Orders at fold3 are 3562 pages long (see WWII War Diaries - Fold3 - and they cover only the Eastern Task Force!), it would help to know what more precisely you are looking for... Michel
Michel. Didn't realize that large. Thought it might be some overall "light" bedtime reading But not knowing the contents, I wouldn't know what to look for. I guess I'll join Fold3 and at least have a look at the index. Thanks again for the answers provided over the last few days. I have a genuine interest in the whole D-day period. My grandfather was deputy base commander at RAF North Creake with 171 and 199 Squadrons employed on Windows and Mandrel sorties. Peter
I took the plunge this week (nearly a year later from when I originally posted the thread inquiry) for the Fold3 yearly subscription (on at a bit of reduced price). I have spent this cold wintery white week ( -25 to -30C overnight temps) looking at some of the Naval Orders and has filled in a few blanks and unknowns for me. So far, it seems worth the cost. I am wondering if any member has made some sort of index or list of the 3562 images. I've identified the first page of ON1 to ON 22 which covers about 492 images. That still leaves over 3000. I've found a few random lead pages, but the thumbnail images are pretty small, and it will take a while to open each. I would appreciate if anyone could offer some sort of index. PM me if you don't wish to share with community. Thanks in advance. Similar query on the Fold 3 Report by Allied Naval CinC Report CB 004385A with it's 18 Appendix. It's only 736 Images, so maybe not to bad to do myself, but any help appreciated. Thanks all.
