Can someone identify this Med landing?

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Mike L, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    This is following on from Clive Llewellyn’s HMLZ42 thread.
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-sea/36908-hmlz-42-a.html

    In an exchange of emails with Clive he sent me several photos from his Grandfather’s personal collection and I am posting them with Clive’s permission.
    They show what appears to be an uncontested Naval landing probably somewhere in the Med Theatre of Ops with various LCMs, Mk2 and Mk3 LCTs, an LSI and interesting cargos being unloaded. The cargos include Ambulances, bulldozers and probably 25-pounders with Quad and Limber. A DUKW is also visible. Clive mentions his Grandfather recalled Tobruk and Sicily.

    The question is: can anyone identify the landing either from the surrounding coast or the vessels involved?
    The LCM numbers are 81-1, 81-6 and 81-14 what ship were these assigned to?.
    LCT379 (Mk3) is shown and also LST407.

    Any help gratefully received.

    Thanks in anticipation,

    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

    Chris C likes this.
  2. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    More pictures:
     

    Attached Files:

    Chris C likes this.
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Haven't a clue but some superb photos there.
     
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    MikeL
    on first sight of the LCT - I thought of Panteleria which was a minor landing prior to Sicily- as the 16/5th Lancers landed there unopposed and went off back to North Africa in a huff having got their tanks all dirty for no fun- BUT that's a lot of trees - a dog's paradise - for that area even for Sicily so I would join Owen in saying - not a clue..
    Cheers
     
  5. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Thanks Owen and Tom. I thought it looked a bit too well wooded for N Africa and the visible buildings don't seem to give any clues. I don't know enough about Sicily to even guess if it could be there.
    I am trying to find out if LCMs all starting with 81 in their number are from the same carrying vessel but no luck yet. Anyway the vessel/LCMs could have taken part in many landings. This is proving a bit tricky!
     
  6. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    MikeL
    on first sight of the LCT - I thought of Panteleria which was a minor landing prior to Sicily- as the 16/5th Lancers landed there unopposed and went off back to North Africa in a huff having got their tanks all dirty for no fun- BUT that's a lot of trees - a dog's paradise - for that area even for Sicily so I would join Owen in saying - not a clue..
    Cheers

    I remember reading a comment by Churchill about the Pantelleria landing that there was only one injury and he was bitten by a mule!;)
     
  7. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    I was gong to say Lampedusa, but Its not (I think) as there is too much going on. Only one/two LCTs were used with no support.
     
  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Is that a Fordson in 'Caunter Scheme' coming ashore in 023 ?
     
  9. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Rich, you lost me with that one!

    Cropped from Clive022 below seems to show a DUKW.
    Doing a bit of Googling it seems DUKWs were first used in 'Husky', invasion of Sicily so that seems to rule out any NA campaign landings. Husky started 9/10 July 1943.
    Could the Quad, Limber and what looks like a 25 pounder give any clues? I guess these were pretty widely used by '43.
    Still think the coastline and mountains in some photos could be the key here, although the photos seem to have been taken from two different locations. Some of the cliffs seem quite stratified and characteristic.
     

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  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I can't see the pics anymore, all I get is a white screen with a red X in top left corner.
     
  11. idler

    idler GeneralList

    LCA 492 (photo 19) is recorded as being lost in 1944.
    Of course, this could be an earlier landing where it was salvaged...
     
  12. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Idler, I looked at RN losses in WW2 for anything about LCT379 - not listed as lost - but a few close numbers are scattered about a bit so not much help there.
    Owen, pictures open OK for me.
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Bizarre, I can see them now, how odd...still clueless though...
     
  14. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Photo of the LCT skipper who took the pictures, Clive Llewellyn's Grandfather Albert Wiseman (on the left).
    Is that a gun mount/sights in the background?
     

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  15. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Mike, if you Google 'caunter camouflage', you'll see lots of three-colour diagonal disruptive.

    I don't think the Fordson can be, just a sloppily applied later pattern, I think.

    [​IMG]

    Is this definitely a real landing or could it be a practice in North Africa for Sicily ?
     
  16. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Rich, thanks for that, I am slightly wiser now! Is the Caunter significant time-wise?
    Practice landing - now that is a really good point. They do look a bit relaxed and for Albert Wiseman to have the time to take quite a few pics does ask the question. DUKW seems to give timeframe of about mid 1943.
    Still could be a 'real' landing I suppose but in a quiet sector perhaps a few days after assault.
    I hope someone can suggest a location from the cliffs visible in some of the photos.
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Anyone got a map of the beaches used in Op Baytown , have they got rock formations like that near Reggio ?
    Been Googling but not sure.

    Where's Ron , he was there.
     
  18. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Rich -
    That thought went through my mind as they all look so casual -and there was a lot of rehearsing all along both coasts at that time...but it's all those trees..not too many Timber Merchants around there - that's why most things were built in concrete
    Cheers
     
  19. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Mike, Caunter is far too early really. If it was still on vehicles in 1943 then it was only by accident, I'd suspect (but MEF is not really my 'thing')

    I assume that there were many practice landings prior to Sicily.

    The 'History of the 58th' details theirs, after much 'dryshod' practice backing trucks up onto mock LCTs. There is reference to 'wetshod' training on exercise "Bromyard" in the Gulf of Akaba on 13th June 1943.

    It doesn't look to be there but presumably there were other locations ?
     
  20. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Puzzling eh?
    Looking again at the pics I think14, 16 and 31 are from same location - fairly flat, with a large square building at extreme Right hand side.
    13 shows large hills or mountains in background and 15, 22, 23, 24 and 41 show some of the same buildings with the 'stratified' cliffs.
    I should have said, I don't know if these photos were from the same film, just as sent to me by Clive.
     

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