Can anyone help please?

Hi everyone, thanks for all this fantastic history on this site, its amazing, right so ive been trying to find out info about my grandads brother robert rudolph metcalfe, at first i couldnt find anything but then found out he had given his wrong d.o.b when he enlisted, he died in a prisoner of war camp which i think was stalag vIII B Lamsdorf, his p.o.w no was 10509, he was captured on the 27th may 1940 st floris france, he died 17th oct 1941, stories gowing up were that it was a quard that killed him with a shovel, i was told on his death cert it said pneumonia, would there be any way of finding out? also would there be any diaries or pictures to find? i found his pow card with his photo but thats all i can find, along with i think its 11 platoon B company roll book, i know he was recorded at stalag, does that mean he died there? or did he get moved, my grandad didnt talk about him apart from telling us that the japanese killed him, which doesnt make sense to me either, i know theres his headstone at krakow, which i have pictures of but would love to find some diaries or questionaires by him, he was robert rudolph metcalfe, born 13th march 1912 (he gave the wrong dob of 2nd june 1910 so that he could enlist i presume) he enlisted on the 19th june 1928
service no 4446996 private robert metcalfe of B company 11 platoon 2nd durham light infantry

 

As you are aware of the ROLL BOOK I am assuming you have already visited the DLI 1920-46 Website (that`s the only site where it`s contents were transcribed) Together with the PoW card info, date of birth and enlistment date (which the website owner researched at the Durham Records Office many years ago ) He also has a photograph (This isn`t from the PoW card)

To answer the question:- There`s no questionnaire as he died in 1941 . He isn`t mentioned in 2 DLI diary ,very few were and the 1940 diary was reconstituted later ,after their return from France . He was awarded 39-45 Star and War Medal . (The same site has his medal card but not on view) Medals were sent C/o 4 Grawshay Road Brixton London.

Service records for his pre-war service from 1928 -1941 . He wasn`t killed he is listed as `Died` if his death certificate shows pneumonia it ties in with what`s recorded ?

You could apply to the Red Cross ? (I`m sure someone will be along to advise on that procedure)

Good luck

Kyle

 

Here's his Personnelkarte in the National Archives. Worth getting as it has a photograph taken on capture.

I'd also recommend the Stalag VIIIB group on Facebook.


Reference: WO 416/254/18

Description:

Name: Robert Metcalfe.

Date of Birth: 02/06/1910.

Place of Birth: Bishop Auckland.

Service: British Army.

Rank: Private.

Regiment/Unit/Squadron: The Durham Light Infantry.

Service Number: 4446996.

Date of Capture: 27/05/1940.

Theatre of Capture: St Floris.

Camp Name/Number: Stalag VIIIB Lamsdorf.

PoW number: 10509.

Date of Death: 17/10/1941.

Number of Photographs: 1.

Number of Fingerprints: 1.

Number of X-rays: 0.

Number of Cards: 3.

Date: [1939-1945]
Held by: The National Archives, Kew

 

Courtes: Findagrave.com

 

Claire,

Welcome aboard. Your subject appears once here before this thread, only his CWGC details on: Krakow Rakowicki Cemetery

The POW Card cited is not available to download from TNA. You could pay them to get a copy or seek a researcher's help who regularly visit Kew. See: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17151706

There is a second TNA record, it appears to be his Service Record and is shown as 'Closed' till 2026. Clearly you can prove he is dead, with his CWGC entry and should get access. See: Name: R Metcalfe . Service number: 4446996 . Date of birth: 2 June 1910 . | The National Archives

We always recommend applying for the subject's full service record. Yes, it may take a year to arrive - either from the MoD or National Archives (TNA). It is not available online and is the definitive record.

Your text illustrates how stories can be false:

Some research tips via PM next, though most are covered already. It depends on how much you want to know.

 

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

You ought to apply to Swiss Red Cross 20th January 2025 for a copy of the information held in their files via this link -

Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

Check the site promptly at the given opening time and a pop up online application form will be visible. Complete and submit the form speedily as the application window can close within 90 minutes due to the limit being reached.

It’s a free service and you can expect a reply by email within 3 months. You may be lucky and get a copy of the capture card postcard he completed on arrival at his first camp. The Red Cross document you will receive should list all the camps where he was detained.

Steve

 

thank you so much

 

thank you, ill take a look

 

i applied for both my grandads and his about 2 year ago, received my grandads a couple of month ago but still waiting for roberts, it was them that told me he had given a different date of birth, and i will defineately apply to the red cross thank you for the link and advise

 

Claire,

I forgot to really mention it might be an idea to contact (Jim ) at the DLI 1920-46 Website direct ? He may have something more than is currently on his website ? Just a thought I`m sure he will help if he can ?


Kyle

 

Claire, From the PoW Card I believe perhaps someone can translate there`s mention of his original grave reference on the first , the rest I don`t know





Kyle

 

My interpetation:

I was able to decipher this from the 2nd document:

Weihendorf = today Wojnowice

I have not found most of the abbreviations used. However, they are undoubtedly internal "administrative prose"
For the daring ones - List of abbreviations in use at the time :
Abkürzungen - Justiz und NS-Verbrechen

 

So it looks- on balance of probabilities- that Robert Metcalfe was temporarily buried in 1941 at Ratibor, Lower Silesia (now Racibórz, Poland), and therefore was likely to be have been posted to one of the Stalag VIIIB work camps in that area. E138 (a Steel factory) is a possiblity, although I can't see any arbeitskommando number listed on the cards.

Post-war the CWGC re-interred most of the Stalag VIIIB POW casualities to the main cemetery at Krakow

 

Close, John - but as always, the devil is in the detail: Weihendorf is a small community in the district of Ratibor. The funeral took place there
Historical map: The cemetery is marked in the yellow circle at the bottom right

It is not clear from the available documents why the burial took place there
I think the most obvious possibility is that he was a member of a labour detachment for the local sugar factory (Map top left):
POST 61: THE WOINOWITZ ZUCKERFABRIK (SUGAR FACTORY) OUTSIDE RATIBOR (PART IV-GRUNDBUCH (LAND REGISTER)) - bruckfamilyblog.com

 

The CWGC records suggest that Metcalfe was buried at Weithendorf, which like many German Silesian villages, has entirely disappeared from the map. It is now known as Wojnowice in the administrative district of Gmina Krzanowice, Racibórz, Poland.

There's an interesting family history of the -largely unknown- humanitarian disaster of mass expulsions & atrocities that took place in this area as the Red Army advanced into German territory in 1945 here: http://artemis.austincollege.edu/acad/history/htooley/HausnerFormat.pdf

 

I have written to the owner of the website Willkommen in Weihendorf! (the map comes from there)
Apparently there are still surviving church records that he has access to.
It is possible that details may come to light in this way.
I will let you know if I receive a reply

 

Thank you Itdan for the translation and other research . Hopefully Claire will have taken Steves (Tullybrone ) advice and applied to the Red Cross . I would hope they might record how he died ? and Claire will come back and update us then ?

Kyle

 

Mr Lodzik actually got in touch
Unfortunately, he did not find anything that could help