Campo Pg65,345d Transit Camp,campo 57 3200

any info on these camps please..my father was a pow in these camps and I would some info on them if poss..thanks

 

any info on these camps please..my father was a pow in these camps and I would some info on them if poss..thanks

Hi again,
have you tried the Defence Library at Wellington as they have quite a lot of information on WW2 P.O.W.

Perhaps if you contact Katrina Willoughby on 04 496 0844 she would be able to help you.

Brian

 

P.G.65 was a transit camp near Bari from where prisoners were sent to other camps in Italy. P.G.57 was in Gruppignano, Nth Italy, about 5kms from Cividale. All that remains there now is a church built by the POW's, since restored. Recommend you read a book by Susan Jacobs (of Auckland) called Fighting With the Enemy (in libraries) and Hitlers Digger Slaves by Alex Barnett of Brisbane, a POW P.G.57. Your father may have been transferred fro P.G.57 to work camps in the area.
Colin

 

Many thanks for your info...I have heard of Susan Jacobs and my father certainly spoke of Bari..I wonder where they proceeded to from here
Cheers

 

Susan's book is about N.Z. POWs in Nth Italy and N.Z. escapees, partisans etc. - very informative.What is your father's name? My wife and I have just returned from Italy & Austria, visiting POW camps where my father was. At the end of the war they filled out questionaires when they arrived in the U.K. - you can obtain copies from the National Archives in London google national archives U.K. for website. Also you can request info from the Red Cross in Geneva- try International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) - Home and fill out the form - they take about 3 months to reply though. Refer to my other posting today re my father. Did he end up in Austria or Germany?

 

Thanks so much for this...his Name was Mervyn Tisdall #26430 24th NZ Battalion and he ended up in a coal mine in Poland..in Piaski, Sosnoweitz and from there he was hospitalised---prior to all this he was on board the Jason ..the Italian ship that was torpedoed..as they were crossing from Benghazi to Italy...that it is a terrible story on its own if you google it etc or I can give you other references if interested

 

Thanks so much for this...his Name was Mervyn Tisdall #26430 24th NZ Battalion and he ended up in a coal mine in Poland..in Piaski, Sosnoweitz and from there he was hospitalised---prior to all this he was on board the Jason ..the Italian ship that was torpedoed..as they were crossing from Benghazi to Italy...that it is a terrible story on its own if you google it etc or I can give you other references if interested


There were two P.O.W. in Gruppignano with the name Tisdall. M.M.C. & J.W.
M.M.C. is showing as St.344 Lamsdorf P.O.W. No. 33629 and J.W. 7A Moosburg P.O.W. No. 114202.
The "Jason"or Sebastiano Venier is well documented,both in No Honour No Glory and In the Bag by Peter Ogilvie and Newman Robinson. There is a copy of the latter in the Defence Library that I donated several years ago.

Bye the way when the Captain of the Jason landed from a Lifeboat he was taken by the Germans to Tripolis. He was tried for deserting his ship and executed.
Some of those who swam ashore were quickly taken by Greeks to a mustering point about 10mls inland and later evacuated by Submarine with other"stragglers".

Brian

 

There were two P.O.W. in Gruppignano with the name Tisdall. M.M.C. & J.W.
M.M.C. is showing as St.344 Lamsdorf P.O.W. No. 33629 and J.W. 7A Moosburg P.O.W. No. 114202.
The "Jason"or Sebastiano Venier is well documented,both in No Honour No Glory and In the Bag by Peter Ogilvie and Newman Robinson. There is a copy of the latter in the Defence Library that I donated several years ago.

Bye the way when the Captain of the Jason landed from a Lifeboat he was taken by the Germans to Tripolis. He was tried for deserting his ship and executed.
Some of those who swam ashore were quickly taken by Greeks to a mustering point about 10mls inland and later evacuated by Submarine with other"stragglers".

Brian
thanks Brian.....my fathers initials were M.C.C seems too much of a coincidence..could the MMC be MCC??...how did u access this info..it amazing
My father was at Lamsdorf and spoke of this..i also have the identification plate from the Stalag ...I found it amongst his memorabilia
also re the Jason...my father recalled the captain and some of the crew were first to leave the ship and took the only lifeboats!!...his further descriptions were rather descriptive to say the least!!!
cheers
Charles

 

Brian..wow just checked his records..and yes his POW # was 33629..he was trf to Stalag VIIIb Germany and then Stalag 344,approx 22.12.43..do you have any other info on him
Charles

 

Brian..wow just checked his records..and yes his POW # was 33629..he was trf to Stalag VIIIb Germany and then Stalag 344,approx 22.12.43..do you have any other info on him
Charles


Hi Charles,
the information comes from P.O.W. Registers of those in Germany that were published some years ago . The Italy information comes from a File I copied in the U.K. National Archives.

I feel that the only other information that could be available is if he was either witness to,or involved in any incident reported to the Red Cross. It could be that he made a report on Liberation. Sadly not all P.O.W. made such a report,and some that were made have not survived.
WO344/319/2 would be the relevent File if he did make such a report. There is also an off chance that he is mentioned in one of the War Crimes files.
Of course the Unit War Diaries could be of help, you will probably find copies at Trentham or the Defence Library in Wellington.

Regarding the "Jason"and Nino Bixio : in the final issue of POW-WOW the was a photograph of a Memorial to those lost on the ships.

Brian

 

Thanks so much for this...his Name was Mervyn Tisdall #26430 24th NZ Battalion and he ended up in a coal mine in Poland..in Piaski, Sosnoweitz and from there he was hospitalised---prior to all this he was on board the Jason ..the Italian ship that was torpedoed..as they were crossing from Benghazi to Italy...that it is a terrible story on its own if you google it etc or I can give you other references if interested

Hi again Charles,
just had a browse on T.N.A. Web Site and came up with a file that could hold some information; WO 311/1111 is a File that was closed until May this year.
The description is "Ill treatment of British P.O.W. at Work Camp E713(Nience Coal Mine), Kazimierz,near Sosnowicz, Poland (attached to Stalag V111B,Lamsdorf) Dec 1942 to June 1944.

Brian

 

Brian...have also found his name on a list for Campo 85 (via the internet)..so finally after many years of searching...some pieces of the puzzle of his journey are starting are starting to make sense...I have also found a photo of him(last night) on the internet via the Alexaner Turnbull library at Campo 57...I confirmed this from a copy of the same photo in his collection with a mark identifying him on the photo..I couldnt believe it
so thank you so much for your assistance
Charles

 

Brian...our messages have crossed...Poland has always been a mystery for me...so if it was attached to stalag Viiib that explains why he was there ..I have a photo of him in Poland on on the back of it states "Dave Rolton and I at KDO .E587 Piaski,Sosnowitz,Poland" I dont know what this reference is...

I know he was badly hurt here and was saved by a youg Doctor when he was sent to Hospital..The doctor refused to let him be taken back to the Mine and gave him a job in the Hospital...can you believe this...the young Doctor was his old school mate from New Zealand!!!and recognised him upon arrival at hospital

what is your ref T.N.A website???
Regards

 

Brian...our messages have crossed...Poland has always been a mystery for me...so if it was attached to stalag Viiib that explains why he was there ..I have a photo of him in Poland on on the back of it states "Dave Rolton and I at KDO .E587 Piaski,Sosnowitz,Poland" I dont know what this reference is...

I know he was badly hurt here and was saved by a youg Doctor when he was sent to Hospital..The doctor refused to let him be taken back to the Mine and gave him a job in the Hospital...can you believe this...the young Doctor was his old school mate from New Zealand!!!and recognised him upon arrival at hospital

what is your ref T.N.A website???
Regards


Charles,
there is more so I will send you a P.M.

Brian

 

Charles,
there is more so I will send you a P.M.

Brian


There is a New Zealand P.O.W. named D.Rolton 24270 P.O.W. No. 33621 who was registered at St.344 Lamsdorf which was originally designated St.V111B. He was also in PG 57.

This would be the Camp where he was registered and processed before being allocated to a work Camp.

Brian

 

Brian....your knowledge is outstanding..i cannot begin to explain how your specific information and explanations are not only filling in vital gaps for me,but are having a profound emotional effect,each time we open and close a chapter...my Dad along with all his comrades suffered so much and in so many ways,as a pridoner from 1941 to 1945...i now really begin to understand his silence...and finding that photo last night on the web.........

A huge thank you Brian!!from all my family...
ps sorry to inform u ...but my questions arent finished yet!!!!

 

this has to be the Dave Rolton in the photo I have!!!

today I found a small metal label that has 'Stalag 317' on it and some other numbers its got 4 holes in it and is some kind of Identity label that would have been nailed to something...a wall perhaps...I wonder where Stalag 317 was???
Charles

 

this has to be the Dave Rolton in the photo I have!!!

today I found a small metal label that has 'Stalag 317' on it and some other numbers its got 4 holes in it and is some kind of Identity label that would have been nailed to something...a wall perhaps...I wonder where Stalag 317 was???
Charles


Hi Charles,
Stalag 317 was Markt Pongau (St Johann).

I have been studying P.O.W,and Camps in Libya,Italy and Germany since 1992. The Transport of P.O.W. from Libya to Italy is something I have studied in great detail,creating casualty lists for individual ships,along with the Ultra Intelligence regarding the ships movements.
There is some of my work at Trentham and the Defence Library in Wellington,and I was a friend of the late Jim Henderson.

Brian

 

Brian, your knowledge is incredible. Markt Pongau (now St Johann im Pongau) was the location of Stalag 18C - is this the same camp? I visited the site of Stalag 18C in July this year, it is adjacent to the railway line in the industrial area across the river from the old town, and was in the area bordered by the Industriestrabe, Bahonhofstrabe and Gartensledlung (3 streets). There is a Garden Centre and industrial buildings on the site now - no references to the camp there. Regards, Colin R