Hi, I came across this photo (bundesarchiv) of a 2pdr AT gun abandoned at Calais in May 1940. Apart from being particularly interested that it shows a later wheel and shield than that normally seen on 2pdrs with British forces in France in 1940 I was quite taken with the camouflage on the shield. Even though it looks as if it was hastily applied it gives the impression that it was done with a bit of an artistic flourish. Now however I am having second thoughts about this camo on the shield. Is it even paint? Maybe it is a simple case of somebody wiping off dust. I would be interested to know if the 2pdrs received camouflage paint at manufacture, depot level or when they were issued to their units. I understand the guns were only just landed and were lost within a day or two so possibly they didn't last long enough to get any camouflage paint. Anyone like to offer an opinion? While I am here, I wonder, would the guns have gas detecting paint patches on them? Thanks for any help. Cheers, TimTam27
I've seen that pic before (I think I've posted it on here to). From a slightly different angle bare in mind (depending on who the gun belonged to) most of the units at Calais deployed from the UK in May so their kit may have been camouflaged in the UK long after most of the BEF had deployed to France. Another thought could be that the heat from when the gun was destroyed has caused the paint to flake giving the appearance of camouflage-It doesn't overly look like this is the case but I have often seen fire damage on vehicles look like camouflage in B and W pictures. Welcome by the way. Andy
British 2pdr AT gun The photo below seems to have some camouflage effect painted on it. So probably the marking on the damaged gun was an attempt at camourflage.
Thanks Guys. If the general opinion is camo paint then I will be happy to go along. Re-examining the pic I am starting to favour camo paint over wiped off dust given the position of the vaguely W shaped area over the gun barrel. It would seem like a difficult position to get to just to wipe off dust. Thanks Andrew for the welcome. This is a very interesting site. A treasure trove of BEF information. Cheers, TimTam27
I've bumped this up as we now have a lot more BEF chaps from when this was originally posted nearly 18 months ago. I'm sure that this was a Calais captioned photo and there was more in the series which leads me to wonder if anyone can ID the units the other vehicles belonged to?
Most of the correctly captioned Bundesarchiv photos have been fairly widely used. This is the view from the other side. I can see no markings on the Dingo. The gun presumably belonged to 229 Anti-tank battery or 58 Anti-tank regiment. If diaries survive, you might just get lucky and find reference to camouflaging before departure.
Another thought could be that the heat from when the gun was destroyed has caused the paint to flake giving the appearance of camouflage-It doesn't overly look like this is the case but I have often seen fire damage on vehicles look like camouflage in B and W pictures. Also - when paint burns off metal in a fire, the bare metal underneath will rust in hours...if you've ever noticed how fast a burnt out car rusts???
Looks like hastily-applied cammo to me: you can clearly see that it was done in two or three brush strokes - using something like a mop or an 8" paint brush. You can even see the paint blobbing where the brush changed direction and was lifted off the metal. Such cammo is usually fairly indistinct, as its often painted over dust or other unprepared surface. If you look at British Army vehicles from a modern war - Telic1, the invasion of Iraq - you can easily tell which vehicles didn't go through a proper paint shop to get the sand colour - the ones which were brush painted in the desert all quickly reverted to blotchy green!
the ones which were brush painted in the desert all quickly reverted to blotchy green! We was told it was a water (or something else) based paint so it could be jet washed off when the vehicles came home.
Can any one tell me the type of vehicle that would have towed the 2 pounder AT gun in 229 Batt? Thanks Malc.
The diary accounts certainly refer to 'trucks' (and not many of them). I'd suspect that the Bedford MW 15cwt was most likely. This further Bundesarchiv photo captioned as Calais shows an MW bearing the Arm of Service serial '6' which is one that was used in the BEF for Divisional Anti-Tank Regiments.
Can any one tell me the type of vehicle that would have towed the 2 pounder AT gun in 229 Batt? Malc Both Bedford MW and Morris CS8 had an anti-tank portee version, with a slightly higher tilt, with windows, than the normal. Of course with the BEF the normal cargo versions only had a tarpaulin over the load - no hoops. But these portee trucks would also have towed the guns, especially if there was no time to load the guns onto the truck! In many cases they were armed with the French 25mm anti tank gun as there were not enough 2 pounders to go round. Chris
