Cabinet War Rooms - this map in Churchill's room...

Discussion in 'WW2 Museums. Events, & places to see.' started by phylo_roadking, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    All, I haven't been myself, and won;t probably have the chance for some considerable time...but does anyone who's visited happen to have taken a pic of THIS map in Churchill's private room???

    It's called the "Home Defence Map", and contains a wealth of detail regarding invasion defences in the summer of 1940. According to William Foot it hasn't been updated since c.June/July 1940....and was found that way when the War Rooms were unlocked for the first time in decades in 1983! It would appear that Winston simply liked it....!

    I'm hoping some of our esteemed members noticed it enough to take a decent pic or pics of it???

    [​IMG]
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Nothing detailed in the screenshots, I'm afraid; till something better comes along, one blurred close-up
    Screen Shot 2015-02-18 at 23.36.34.png
    very rough overlay/alignment with modern map, best I could do given the slight 'warp' Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 17.21.17.png

    From Gilbert's Churchill TV series, part 2 ...

     

    Attached Files:

  3. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Thanks for those; the first one is the most revealing...obviously! See the individual red "gun barrels"? These mark the locations of Emergency batteries ;)

    It shows the level of information on the map as a whole. Unfortunately it looks as if nowadays Churchill's Room is panelled off :( Saves on the dusting, I suppose...
     
  4. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

  5. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I can remember visiting the Cabinet War Rooms bunker about a year after it opened, but did not take any photographs I am afraid.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  6. Bernard85

    Bernard85 WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    good day dbf.super moderaters.18th feb 2015.11:42 pm.re:cabinet war rooms,this map in churchills room. great photo's.of interest to us who have not seen them.thank you for posting,regards bernard85
     
  7. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    THIS is the one bit of the map I have - the "legend! LOL

    Now you can see why I'm so interested in seeing the actual map!

    [​IMG]
     
    dbf likes this.
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I was wondering what was on that, thanks.

    Have you tried direct approach, to see if they have actually photographed it - or could photograph it?
     
  9. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    I had a look round their part of the IWM site last night...and there was no way of contacting the War Rooms themselves!
     
  10. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYEbfgbIroY

    Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 16.01.05.png
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  12. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    I MAY want to see the map badly....but not £161 bad! LOL

    Starting at £161....


    There are two email addys there for enquiries....but they're tied to enquiries about the events and hire - which means anything else will be deleted :(
     
  13. idler

    idler GeneralList

    It's only £27.50 if you can find 9 people willing to pay for the honour of distracting the guide while you photograph the map.
     
  14. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    I wish!

    !!!

    The problem is that Churchill's room seems to be behind a glass partition now. Some of the "closed" (partitioned off) bits are open for the personal one-to-one tour.....the even more massively expensive one!....but they don't list Churchill's room on that either.
     
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Read down a bit - £275 for a guide who can take a party of up to ten!
     
  16. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I looked at some photos on the net yesterday, trip advisor and the like, and it's hard to tell if WC's bed is still exactly in situ or not. The glass partition seems to be where the map wall/doorway was in the photos above... Which is odd.
     
  17. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    I wondered about that....hope they didn't take it away to make "room" (sic) for a bigger doorway/partition!!!
     
  18. FMAlanbrooke

    FMAlanbrooke Junior Member

    The holy grail of things Sealion! I just rang them up , the operator said you are free to go there and photograph the map although it is behind glass. I asked if it could be photographed for me and they said no although when I suggested it should already be photographed and a copy kept somewhere the lady said maybe Chartwell or the IWM archives -- try them.
     
    dbf likes this.
  19. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    The problem....if you look at the pic in the first post....is where it is behind glass. With what appears to be the new glass partition across the doorway into the bedroom alcove....

    Not only is the vital bottom right hand corner of the map behind that curtain...it's ALSO behind that wooden support! You have to be actually IN the room - and preferably with someone holding the curtain to one side for you!

    William Foot got priviledged access to the room just before the War Rooms opened, due to his link with the Defence of Britain Project. That's why he was able to shift stuff away from in front of the map and take a good look. He just didn't reproduce any pics he took in his book(s)!

    It is indeed the "Holy Grail". Brian Lavery in his book "We Shall Fight On The Beaches" describes the project by which a pair of officers toured the entire coast of the UK in May and June 1940 and identified which beaches needed defending from potential invaders. Not only in terms of whether the sand or gravel could support tanks and vehicles....but access to and from the beaches, and any major obstacles inland of particular beaches that would make their use unsuitable for the purpose. I'm presuming this inspection tour is what fed back ultimately onto that map....and the listed beach types marked up accordingly.

    It would ALSO confirm the locations of the various coastal and Emergency batteries constructed in June and July 1940; we're actually missing a single, definitive list in one place still - one that has rolled around the net for some years seems to be quite incorrect with respect to the Dover to Dungeness section, for example....and I haven't checked the other areas yet! It lists several that didn't exist on the ground - and at least one that wasn't built/armed until the winter of 1940-41.
     
  20. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    ah ha


    [​IMG]

    map here...
    Screen Shot 2015-03-07 at 14.50.15.png

    No one is really going to get a decent shot of the map from outside the glass panels, are they... never mind the detail.
     

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