British Vehicle Markings - a rough guide

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by SquireBev, May 30, 2020.

  1. Christian Fletcher

    Christian Fletcher Well-Known Member

    Pretty good. There are variations, additions and subtractions, some of which were there and some of which weren't! I've attached an excel file with my take on the April 1940 Corps AoS.
    cheers
     

    Attached Files:

  2. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this - I'll add it to my pile!
     
  3. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    And now, at the risk of opening a massive can of worms regarding errors and omissons, my first attempt at diagrams for the 79th Armoured Division. Just snapshots for now - I'm still working on a timeline to show regiment and brigade movements, like the one for independent brigades posted on the previous page.

    If anyone can offer any more sources regarding regiment movements, please do! I'm getting bogged down flicking between Bellis booklets, with some regiments either being in two places at once, or disappearing completely!

    79th Armoured Division

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    This was from my research on the OOB for 79 Armd Div during the Northwest Europe campaign. It just covers the Regts/Bdes, not the services.

    Gary
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    Thanks Gary, that clears up a lot of confusion about the movements of the 11th RTR in particular.
     
  6. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    Here goes nothing...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    Next up, AGRAs:

    UK - Europe - AGRAs - 1944-01.png

    I've cross-referenced Bouchery, Hodges, Taylor, Bellis, and CanadianSoldiers.com, so I'm hoping it's free of errors. Happy to be proven wrong though!

    Europe - Higher Formations & AGRAs
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
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  8. Christian Fletcher

    Christian Fletcher Well-Known Member

    Good work identifying the Artillery Coys . Each Artillery regt would have had a LAD but none of the RASC Coys: they each had a workshop platoon of their own. Theoretically 3 AGRA 737 Coy would have had 6 Artillery Regt Platoons, each consisting of a Transport Platoon (a), a Composite Platoon (les B, C & D sections)(b) and a Driver Increment(c)., but as the composition cahnged according to operations, they could have had more or less!

    737 to 740 Art Coys were mobilised as 38963 a & b to 38966a & b. Listed immediately after them (but not necessarily belonging to them!) were Arftillery Regiment Platoons 1660 - 1665, 1667, 1670 - 1672 and 1680 - 1681 mobilised as 38967a, b & c to 38978a, b & c. The sequential listing is probably co-incidental!

    The Canadians I'm not too sure about: RCASC may have had a numbered LAD in the same fashion as all their unit LADs.

    You should, perhaps, add 59 AGRA for completition.
    cheers
     
  9. Pretty chart again!

    For 9 AGRA the Formation Sign shown is that of HQ 21 A Gp, whereas it should that of 21 A Gp, i.e. the same without the crossed swords.

    Michel
     
  10. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    I'll see what I can find.

    Thanks - I wasn't sure about that. I've got conflicting sources (as ever) about who exactly wore the crossed-swords badge and who wore the plain one. There's also a yellow shield variant, apparently?
     
  11. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    Oh and while I'm here anyway, this will be going live tomorrow:

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Christian Fletcher

    Christian Fletcher Well-Known Member

    Nicely done!

    Divisional Signals should be changed to Group Signals. Each Bde HQ had a RSigs Signals Troop and a REME Lad (Type A).

    It took almost a year but someone, somewhere, finally realised that having a British formation with SS in the title wasn't a good fit and they became Commando Brigades in December 44. 48 Commando had replaced 10 (Inter-allied) Commando in May 44.

    1 SS Bde was involved in the Sicily landings before returning to the UK for NWE. 3 SS Bde was also in Sicily before being sent to the Far East.

    Not mentioned in many places but the Group also commanded the COPP teams (Combined Operations Pilotage Parties). There's also something called Small Scale Raiding Force - sometimes called 62 Commando - but where, what and how I don't know. The PRO is a long way from me and I've never followed that one up!

    cheers
     
  13. Christian Fletcher

    Christian Fletcher Well-Known Member

    Forgot to add - 59 AGRA comprised the Fd Regts of 59 Inf Div - 61, 110 & 116 Fd Regts. They were permitted to continue displaying the 59 Div flash after the division was broken up at the end of August 44.
    cf
     
  14. The distribution of individual Commandos among the SS Group varied considerably during 1944. I guess you'll have to draw a similar Time Line Chart to the one you did for 79 Armd Bde, or to choose a point in time. :)

    Some initial remarks:

    I do not think that the Royal Marine (singular, not plural) Armoured Support Group (not Regiment) was an integral part of the SS Group, although its elements were under command for D Day. It was organised as two regiments of two batteries plus one independent battery:

    RM Armd Sp Gp
    1 RM Armd Sp Regt
    1 RM Armd Sp Bty
    2 RM Armd Sp Bty​
    2 RM Armd Sp Regt
    3 RM Armd Sp Bty
    4 RM Armd Sp Bty​
    5 (Indep) Armd Sp Bty​

    More on the Commandos later...

    Michel
     
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  15. By the way, in your impressive 79 Amd Div charts, "1st Lothians and Border Horse" should be "1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry" instead.

    Michel
     
  16. The Yellow Shield variant is for L of C HQ's. See attached Chart dated 8 May 1945. Although it states that the 21 A Gp sign with the crossed swords is for 21 A Gp and the one without the swords is for "GHQ and L of C TPS", in effect the crossed swords correspond to HQ 21 A Gp tps and the other to 21 A Gp tps.

    Michel
     

    Attached Files:

  17. 4 SS Bde as of D Day was organised as follows:

    100 – HQ 4 Special Service Brigade
    91 – 10 (Inter Allied) Commando
    92 – 48 RM Commando
    93 – 41 RM Commando
    96 – 47 RM Commando

    On 17 Jun 44 46 RM Commando joined the Brigade with AoS 95:

    100 – HQ 4 Special Service Brigade
    91 – 10 (IA) Commando
    92 – 48 RM Commando
    93 – 41 RM Commando
    95 – 46 RM Commando
    96 – 47 RM Commando

    Note: the missing AoS 94 was probably initially alloted to 45 RM Commando which eventually went to 1 SS Bde instead.

    On 7 Oct 44, 46 RM Cdo and 4 Cdo exchanged their positions in 4 & 1 SS Bdes respectively:

    100 – HQ 4 Special Service Brigade
    91 – 10 (IA) Commando
    92 – 48 RM Commando
    93 – 41 RM Commando
    95 – 4 Commando
    96 – 47 RM Commando

    81 – HQ 1 Special Service Brigade
    55 – 3 Commando
    56 – 46 RM Commando
    57 – 6 Commando
    58 – 45 RM Commando

    Michel
     
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  18. Christian Fletcher

    Christian Fletcher Well-Known Member

    There might be a discussion about that. Col. Joslen refers to them as Lothian & Border Horse, using the popular form, not the official title. There are 2 unit badges in existence, one for each regiment!

    The 3 histories differ!

    "A short account of the 1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry in the campaigns of 1940 and 1944-45". The use of LBY seems to have ceased in popular usage after the demise of the regiment at St. Valery and its reformation later in 1940 - but remained as the official title until 1956.

    "Driver Advance! being a short account of the 2nd Lothians and Border Horse 1939-1946.

    "Sabres to Scout Cars". An illustrated history of The Lothians and Border Horse.

    It is the British Army, after all!
     
  19. Christian Fletcher

    Christian Fletcher Well-Known Member

    3 histories of Lothians!
     

    Attached Files:

  20. SquireBev

    SquireBev Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this - do you know if they retained their old AoS serials?

    I'll see what I can come up with. For now I'll probably just stick to D-Day itself, though I would like to still include 2nd and 3rd SS Bde who weren't involved at all...

    Well spotted. I had actually already changed this, but it must have been after I'd uploaded the "finished" diagram!
     

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