British units nearest Cesena?

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Chris C, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Thanks Owen, those are great pics! Two of them being quite clearly those used in the 4th Div history.

    large_NA_019726_1.jpg large_NA_019728_1.jpg
     
  2. hutt

    hutt Member

    5 Corps RASC were in the area. The last file lists those formations and units drawing supplies from 5 Corps. Might be of interest
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
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  3. hutt

    hutt Member

    Might be of interest to the original post so I've added a page from 70 Med Regt diary recording that on 20th October at 07.30 - Word was received that CESENA bridge had been blown just as our forward troops entered the town so all rds expended on harassing fire were of little or no avail. Total amm expenditure was just over 1200rds.
    There may be other references to activity in and around Cesena elsewhere
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Thank you hutt, that is interesting! I know that the Canadian AT batteries which entered the town (there was a towed 6 pdr troop and an Archer troop) were informed of other tanks by the AOP and could they fire on them, but it didn't turn out to be possible. So actually the detail I find most interesting there is the mention of Tigers and a specific grid location. I don't think it was the same report, I just like reading about the interaction between the AOPs and the gunners on the ground. If I could wave my magic wand and have any war diary about these specific dates it would be to have the records from the AOP squadron.
     
  5. Temujin

    Temujin Member

    You have a MAGIC WAND.........where did you get it, does ww2talk give those out........I need one too

    Or can I borrow yours???
     
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  6. hutt

    hutt Member

    More references to Cesena in 101st Provost Company Diary and a note to say how responsibilities for the town were to be divided up on the 21st.
    Unfortunately the magic wand didn't find any Air Observation Post diaries in my collection, but it may be worth having a look for the diaries for 654 and 655 AOP Squadrons. They appear in AGRA diaries from back in 43 (I don't have any for 44) and Wikipedia says they were in Italy throughout this period.
    WO170/3815 and WO170/3816. Its a long shot but might have some info.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
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  7. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I gather from the author of books about some AOPs that I got in touch with at one point, that not only are there war diaries but also "Operational Record books" on microfilm at Kew. It seems like a rabbit hole I should probably try not to go down - I need to press on and finish my damn book! :D
     
  8. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi all,

    I am almost done this section for my book but I've got a question.

    The 4 Division history says that 142 RAC crossed the Savio with Shermans. Were they using a mix of Churchills and Shermans at this point?
     
  9. dickyboy

    dickyboy Member

    Hi Stuart. Sorry to jumpin to your thread, I have been trying to trace the movments of my uncle who served in the 6th BW and was killed 14/09/1944 at Coriano/River Ausa. I'm just wondering if you can help.
    Regards
    Richard
     
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  10. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Have a look at Project '44 (project44.ca). It may have some info. You need to select theatre and date in the grey box at the bottom of the screen.

    Also check out www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/docs/Italy_e.pdf, you need to go to page 526 for the chapter on the Rimini Line.

    Mark
     
  11. dickyboy

    dickyboy Member

    Thats bizarre, I had just clicked onto a twitter thread from one of the makers of that site just this morning. Iam however having a bit of trouble working it out...just for clarification, what divison/brigade were the 6th with in Sept 1944?
    Thanksfor the other link also , I will dive into that this afternoon.
    many thanks have a great day
    Richard.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just checked the Divisional history , they were in the 12th Infantry Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, as mentioned earlier in the thread.
     
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  13. dickyboy

    dickyboy Member

    Mnay thankf for clarifying Owen.
     
  14. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    I've just remembered that i said that i would post some pages on your thread about the book on the 12 Infantry Brigade. Been doing what you are doing for quite some period of time. Its never ending has you know.

    If you still would like the pages, plus the pages from the Battalion History of 6 Black Watch then start a conversation with me.

    I will gladly email them over to you.

    How time moves on.
    Apologies on my part. Its not like me to forget.
    Regards,
    Stu.
     
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  15. dickyboy

    dickyboy Member

    Good afternoon Stu
    Sorry to be cheeky is the offer of the 6th Black Watch offer open to an inerloper...I am interested in the events of 14/9/1944 my uncle was killed in action on that date...and despite having his personal diary I am no wiser as to what her was doing in the lead up to this action and the actually cause of his death
    Regards
    Richard
     
  16. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Richard, by all means. I think this book is going for around £80.00 the last time i looked. You could try & buy it? :)Only kidding. I was kindly lent it from a forum member who can borrow many books from the PCL library at Aldershot.


    No problem. I'm sure i scanned all of it? Will check.

    Regards,
    Stu.
     
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  17. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    To be honest, I am not sure any more why I asked about 142 RAC tanks!
     
  18. dickyboy

    dickyboy Member

    :D:D Many thanks Stu...I had rung The Black Watch Museum in Perth and they hadnt heard of the book, so they had a look through their library and found a copy and a copy of the authours original diary with notes for the book...I will probably call up there next year for holiday and spend the day perusing the diary....
    Thanks again
     
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  19. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Richard,
    here is page 224 & 225 - plus the map for the date of 14 September 44. The map is in the Battalion History (map No 16). The pages are from THE FOURTH DIVISION 1939 to 1945. Its by Hugh Williamson, and was printed in 1951. Another rare book to find & expensive if you can?

    Soon after dawn on September 14th, each supported by a squadron of Churchill tanks, the Black Watch on the right and the Fusiliers on the left began their attack. In less than hour, all the tanks had crossed the ravine, and shortly afterwards the Fusiliers were consolidating on the centre of the farther ridge. The Germans on the left-hand end of the ridge resisted more vigorously, but by noon the Fusiliers were firm on all their objectives. The enemy on the right-hand end were the most determined of all, and shot up four of the Churchills on the ridge near the Casa Fabbri; the Black Watch destroyed a German tank behind the house with a Piat, but a Tiger lurking behind the Casa Savini got away. By two in the afternoon, the Black Watch had taken most of their part of the ridge, but there where Germans still clinging to the lower slopes to the west. During the afternoon the Germans brought up tanks and attacked the positions on the crest; and, when they failed to shake the Black Watch by assault, they tried to infiltrate into their positions; but failed and eventually ceased. The Black Watch took sixty-two prisoners during the day, and the Fusiliers sixteen.
    Now that 12 Brigade was fairly in position on the ridge looking down the River Marano, the division could begin its next task; in the third phase of the battle, the division was to cross the Marano beyond the Casa Fabbri ridge and take the three-hundred- foot hill beyond.
    Shortly before midnight, the West Kents crossed the ridge on their way to Ospedaletto; they met no Germans east of the river. The bridge across the Marano was blown up as they approached it in the darkness; but, by four in the morning, the West Kents had taken their bridge-head as well as twenty-one prisoners. 'A' Company on the right was three hundred yards north of Ospedaletto; 'B' Coy Company in the centre was astride the two roads leading up the hill to II Fienille and San Patrignano; and 'C' Company on the left was five hundred yards south of the Ospedaletto.

    I'm sure I've been to that area on a Battlefield study with a most affable chap that is a forum member The date was 10-13 September 2019. His name is Lt Col (Retd) Frank de Planta de Wildenberg. You will find his website on the tin-ter-net. Its a must that you go with him. You will love it. I've been on two of his Gothic line battlefield studies. They are fabulous & cheap to boot. Enough plugging.

    Map No 16. 6th Bn Black Watch..jpg

    Regards,
    Stu
    Edit; I don't have the War diaries of this battalion. It may be wise to start your own thread. The Jocks are normally detailed that I've seen in the Italian campaign.:D
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
  20. dickyboy

    dickyboy Member

    Many thanks and thank you for th heads up about F de Planta de Wildenberg,I have started looking into his website. Once again thank you.
     

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