British Soldiers shot for retiring without permission

Discussion in '1940' started by Jonathan Ball, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Simple..Yiou were berating me because I forgot that you had already answered my question. Best regards to you and yours!
     
  2. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Sapper, could you please post the chunk of the official history please mate - I'd really like to see it.
     
  3. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The mention in the Short history Swiper mate???
    I will get it out where ever it is, may take time, One fingered old typing Gent!
     
  4. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Cheers, if you could take a photo that'd speed it up mate ;)
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I read all of 246 Companies 1940 War Diary today for Swiper and interestingly at the start of May it says that the May diary was lost during the evacuation from Flanders and is re-written from memory and there is a diary entry dated 26th May that says Captain Borlase the comapnies 2IC and 2 OR's went to report to 'A' 2 Corps to return as advance party to England. It also states they took with the important files and records (War Diary perhaps?) and had to jettison them at Dunkirk.

    On the 26th May the Company was at Mouvaux - three days from Furnes.

    When the company returned to the UK, Captain Borlase was posted to 17 Coy.
     
  6. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    Andy

    In all your research so far at the NA on the BEF have you found any other instances were the Unit War Diaries were lost and then re-written?
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Quite a few-As an educated guess I would say that a diary from a fighting unit that is typed during May/June would have been written after the event as I find it hard to picture someone typing a diary in the middle of a battle.

    One I definately can think of off the top of my head is the 2 Norfolks at Paradis. I read that their diary was dropped in a well/pond to avoid it being captured they threw a bike on top of it to help it sink. I've often wondered if its still there as I know the location of the back garden !
     
  8. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    And was the diary of 2 Grenadier Guards that mentioned the incident stated as being a rewrite? I note your point on typing a diary during a battle but i'm just curious. :)
     
  9. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I've had a nose in quite a few diaries from the period. It seems evident that diaries prior to 10th May were duly sent up the chain of command. Once the fighting started, few of those from the lower units are original diaries but they do generally seem to have been written up from contempraneous notes.

    It seems clear from the level of detail that the responsible officers kept journals or pocket books. There are frequently mis-spelt place names which wouldn't be there if the war diaries had been compiled by referring to a map afterwards but which would reflect notes made at the time with names written phonetically.

    It would seem quite likely that the incident discussed here didn't make it to the ears of the RE adjutant at the time he was putting the May 1940 diary together. The Guards officers on the other hand would have recorded things in order to cover themselves in the event of a future court of enquiry.
     
    dbf likes this.
  10. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    Thanks Rich. Curiosity fully satisifed!
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    He was released in a PoW exchange during the war. I suspect because he lost an arm at Dunkirk after being wounded in the fighting at the Furnes Canal where he is being interviewed the Germans thought he'd be of no use to the war effort.

    He was actually captured at the Rouge Chateau that was being used as a CCS in the suburbs of Dunkirk. There's some pictures in the 'Walking in the footsteps of the BEF' thread.
     
    PsyWar.Org likes this.
  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Image Details
    Name Langley, James Maydon
    Rank: Lieutenant
    Service No: 68294
    Regiment: Coldstream Guards
    Theatre of Combat or Operation: Escape and Evasion and Special Operations
    Award: Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire
    Date of Announcement in London Gazette: 02 May 1941
    Date 1940-1941
    Catalogue reference WO 373/60


    ACCOUNT OF ESCAPE OF Lt. J.M. LANGLEY, M.C., 2nd Battalion COLDSTREAM GUARDS, 1st Division

    Captured 4th June 1940
    Escaped 5th October 1940
    Left Gibraltar 7th March 1941
    Arrived U.K. 21st March 1941
    Length of Army Service: 4 years, 9 months
    Peacetime Profession: Merchant Banker

    1940, 1 June, WOUNDED
    I last saw my unit at DUNKIRK on the 1st June 1940. After being wounded I was taken to 11 C.C.S. ROSENDAEL, under the command of Major NEWMAN, R.A.M.C., where I remained for 6 days. There were 400 British wounded, including 8 wounded from the 2nd Battalion COLDSTREAM. 3 Medical Officers and 20 Orderlies there. The Germans came in on the 4th June.

    On the 8th June the whole C.C.S. moved to the hospital at ZUYDCOOTE. My arm was amputated at this time. I was at ZUYDCOOTE for two months and about the 27th July moved to LILLE, to a French Convent in the RUE ROUBAIX. This convent was used as the French Naval Hospital. On the 1st August all wounded there were moved to the 17/21 BRITISH GENERAL HOSPITAL, Commanding Officer Colonel ROBERTSON, D.S.O. There were about 600 wounded there in all.

    5 October, ESCAPE
    On the 5th October, when we were to be moved to ENGHIEN in BELGIUM, I escaped to a house in LILLE. The next day I was taken out to the Padre's house in ASCQ. After 10 days I moved back into LILLE, hid for 2 days and then took the train to PARIS. In LILLE I was joined by a French boy and two O.R.s of the 51 DIVISION, R.A.M.C. (one of the O.R.s was called WILSON). We were in PARIS, hiding in various hotels, for 14 days and made an abortive attempt to cross the line at ROMARANTIN. We were taken out of PARIS to BOURGES, on the 31st October, by 2 French guides and crossed the line of demarcation south of BOURGES, on the night of the 31st October, and reported to the American Consul in LYONS.

    We spent 3 weeks in VICHY, in touch with the American Embassy, and then went by train to MARSEILLES, where, on about the 1st December, I applied for repatriation, under exchange of wounded scheme. I went before the Medical Board on the 4th January and my papers come through on about the 21st February. I left MARSEILLES on the 21st February and travelled by train via BARCELONA to GIBRALTAR. I was met at PORT BOU by WHITFIELD, the consul at BARCELONA.
    WO 373/60- ir342-pg9
     
    PsyWar.Org likes this.
  13. urqh

    urqh Senior Member

    wasnt the new commander of duke of wellingtons replaced and bn disbanded when he reported bn unfit for duties at one stage standing pistol drawn to stop the troops legging it? Not just a 39 thing..we did it when we were winning it to in 44
     
  14. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    The mention in the Short history Swiper mate???
    I will get it out where ever it is, may take time, One fingered old typing Gent!


    Can you get that Brian ? I would be interesting to compare it with the the units war diary entry for the end of May and who wrote it to see if there are any differences etc.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  16. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    wasnt the new commander of duke of wellingtons replaced and bn disbanded when he reported bn unfit for duties at one stage standing pistol drawn to stop the troops legging it? Not just a 39 thing..we did it when we were winning it to in 44

    My Father told me the following;

    "...............When we went in on an attack, I would perhaps be in the lead with the officer toward the rear, or vice versa. The men were told if any of them tried to do a runner, they would be shot. I was under orders to shoot anyone that turned tail and ran. Whether I would or could was never tested. Major Parker always told the company that he would shoot anyone running away. It was said to everyone, but directed at the odd one or two..............................".
     
  17. perardua

    perardua Junior Member

    All Victims....... :confused:
     
  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Perardua
    I don't understand your post, what are you confused about?
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  19. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sorry... Sheila has turned the books upside down to find the Short History of the RE and the entry for 246. Cannot find it anywhere. I Know its in the house. But Where???
    As to the RE Companies histories, I have them for some of the 3 div RE. most written about the time of the wars end think!
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Thats a shame - I thought you said earlier in this thread you checked it. Well if you find it Brian I'd be interested to see what it says.

    By chance do you know who wrote the 246 Fld Coy 1940 history in your book-It would be interesting to see if they were with the unit in 1940 or joined later during the war.

    Cheers
    Andy
     

Share This Page