I have just seen this over on another forum....... Bengal Sappers and Miners (4 companies) It's from a 4th Indian Infantry Div Operation Crusader .B I had never heard of them before, can anyone tell me anymore about them please? I am especially interested in their time in North africa, their role & their make up ( Weapons establishment)
Generally all Indian Engineers came from one of three corps: the Bengal Sappers and Miners, the Madras Sappers and Miners, and the Bombay Sappers and Miners. As the engineer branch expanded units not part of the three corps were formed.
Thanks for the link. I still have some questions though. Do you agree that they were present during Operation Crusader? What Role did they play in the battle, or any subsequent battles? Do you have a Weapons Establishment for them?
The following companies of Indian Engineers were involved in Operation Crusader: 21st (Bombay) Field Company, IE - under 29th Indian Bde Gp - Oasis Group 18th (Bombay) Field Company, IE - under 5th Indian Bde Gp 4th (Bengal) Field Company, IE - under 7th Indian Bde Gp 12th (Madras) Field Company, IE - under 11th Indian Bde Gp 11th (Madras) Field Park Company, IE - under 4th Indian Division Reserve Group Quite a number of Indian Engineer companies saw service in North Africa under the 4th (shown above), the 5th and the 10th Indian Infantry Divisions as well as the 3rd Indian Motor Brigade. Their service details would be quite extensive. The following chapter of the history of the Indian Engineers details the service of this branch overseas including North Africa. Verma, Major S. The Corps of Indian Engineers 1939-1947 Delhi: Historical Section-Ministry of Defence-Government of India, 1974. Chapter VI Roughly and Indian Engineer Field Company in 1941 would be organised as follows: Coy HQ (1 rifle section, 1 truck) 3 platoons each: 4 (12 man) rifle/engineer sections, 2 lorries
David The S&M would have done normal engineering tasks, just as the RE would have done for the British divisions. Mine lifting/laying, road improvement, fortification building, blowing things up before retreating, etc. All the best Andreas Ps. That's a great site you have there.
Andreas, My site is sadly neglected since I started writing. Your Crusader site is excellent and up-to-date. David R
Andreas, My site is sadly neglected since I started writing. Your Crusader site is excellent and up-to-date. David R Thanks for the compliment. But maybe I should neglect my site a bit more in order to get more writing done! All the best Andreas
Hi Anyone can help me to understand in which indian division was 7th Madras Engineers? This bridge in Ortona was built by that Company. I suppose that Company was in 10th Indian Division. Anyone knows about that coy?
According to Malcolm Bellis, and also 'The Tiger Triumphs', the 7th Field Company Bengal S&M belonged to 8th Indian Infantry Division. He does not show a 7th Madras Engineer battalion, though he says there were two Madras Field Companies in 10 Indian Inf Div who were still in the Middle east at the time of the Moro and Ortona battles. Chris
Hi Chris I do not think that they were attached to 8th division because 7th, 66th and 69th were all bengals not madras. Also D. Pal's book do not show them. But they were in Ortona.
Inscription is about C Company, 7th (Madras) Engineer Battalion. This mean it was probably independent unit on the Corps level, which could be attached to Division but not belongs to it. The Indian Division usually had 3 to 4 field companies not battalions. This is the only reference about 7th Engineer Battalion from the book "The Indian Engineers 1939-47" by Sandes No K.C.I.Os. of the Madras, Bengal or Bombay Groups served during the war in Italy, though the following I.C.Os. were present: (i) Lieut. A. L. Talwar, 301 Field Park Company (Bombay). (ii) Lieut. P. K. Ramakrishnan, 61 Field Company (Madras). (iii) Lieut. K. M. Somana, 10 Field Company (Madras). After the war, Lieut.-Colonel R. E. Aserappa, R.I.E., commanded the 7th Engineer Battalion in Italy from September 1945 to February 1946. It is from note and K.C.I.O means King's Commissioned Indian Officer and I.C.O stands for Indian Commissioned Officer.
War diaries for the unit for 1944 Indian Engineers: 7 Engineer Battalion (Madras) Seems like before moving to Italy unit was part of PAIFORCE.
The unit was the 7th (Madras) Engineer Battalion, which was formed from the pre-war 7th Road Construction Battalion. Here is what I have on the unit: No. 7 Road Construction Battalion Station ???? Title Changes No. 7 Pioneer Battalion - April 1941 7th Madras Engineer Battalion - November 1942 The battalion served under 10th Army in Persia-Iraq on 1 February 1942. It later served as Army Troops in Italy in 1943-45. The battalion was disbanded post-war.
So they were attached to 8th Army not V Corps or one of the three indian division (4th, 8th, 10th) who served in italy
I am not sure. Possibly 15th Army Group. I will take a look at some orders of battle I have and see where they show up.
I went through some detailed 5th and 8th Army Orders of Battle and could not locate the 7th (Madras) Engineer Battalion. I also had one 15th Army Group Order of Battle from April 1945 but no luck. Verma's The Corps of Indian Engineers 1939-45 has it listed under units that served in Italy 1943-45. Here is the list: HQ 4 Div Engrs (Lt Col EE Stenhouse, RE) 4 Fd Coy (Bengal) (Maj CC Fraser, RE) 12 Fd Coy (Madras) (Maj EB Whedton, RE) 21 Fd Coy (Bombay) (Maj RH Eagon, IARO) 11 Fd Pk Coy (Madras) (Maj MC Butterfield, RE) 5 Br Sec (Bengal) HQ 8 Div Engrs (Lt Col CM Maclachlan, RE) 7 Fd Coy (Bengal) (Maj GVJM Smith, RE) 66 Fd Coy (Bengal) (Maj WH Cooper, RE) 69 Fd Coy (Bengal) (Maj RGG Higham, RE) 47 Fd Pk Coy (Bengal) (Maj J Mclean,RE) HQ 10 Div Engrs (Lt Col GF Hutchinson, RE) 10 Fd Coy (Madras) (Maj RA Lindsell, RE) *14 Fd Coy (Madras) (Maj FF Radford, RE) 61 Fd Coy (Madras) (Maj AC Cooper, RE) 41 Fd Pk Coy (Bengal) (Maj GT Roche, RE) “A” Br PI (Bengal) (Capt CH Bateson, RE) *Later transferred to 466 CTE and replaced by 5 Fd Coy. 466 Indian Corps Troops, IE 1 Fd Coy (Bengal) (Maj JG Wood, RE) 5 Fd Coy (Bengal) (Maj MG Young, RE) 97 Fd Coy (Bombay) (Maj WF Eason, RE) 301 Fd Pk Coy (Bombay) Specialist Troops 52 Army Troops Company (Madras) 509 Artisan Works Company 513 Artisan Works Company 1 Sikh Engineer Bn 7 Madras Engineer Bn The Indian Engineer Training Depot Sandes The Indian Engineers 1939-47 only makes a post-war reference to a CO of the unit, which remained in Italy after the war ended in Europe. Lt-Col. R.E. Aserappa commanded the 7th Engineer Battalion in Italy from September 1945 to February 1946.
Hi all I’m trying to track down where 72 Field Company were throughout 1943. My Grandads records show him with 73 Fd Coy until Dec 42, their diaries place him in the Burma/Indian border area. His records the show him being assigned to 72 Fd Coy until Jul 43. I can’t seem to find any reference for them in this period, only after in 1944. He then moved to 69 Fd Coy over in Northern Africa and then Italy. He does have a discipline entry immediately before the move to 69, would this move been a result of that? (I can’t quite make out what for, potentially in proper use of a vehicle..) Anybody any idea of how he would have travelled there, I’m guessing boat but seems along trip in dangerous waters. I’ve skimmed Sandes book but can’t find a reference to them. thanks in advance
