BEF Vehicles

Discussion in '1940' started by JCB, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. bigmal

    bigmal Member

    Hello, i am doing a couple of small dioramas of the BEF, 1 is an A13 Cruiser whose crew are talking to some French soldiers with a Gnome/Rhon M/C Combo.
    The other will have a Char B1 bis, a Renault UE, and an Austin 8hp Tourer.
    My question is about the Austin. Can anyone tell me if the 9th Lancers used these cars, and where the AOS and Div markings were carried, and were they just plain green or camo`d?
    I`ve chosen the 9th Lancers for both of these as i served with the 9/12th Lancers in the 80`s, my next one will be a 12th Lancers armoured car.
    Many thanks in advance.
    Pictures would be a real bonus

    Malcolm
     
  2. Radek-Austin

    Radek-Austin Member

    Here i have something special for you. This is lable from one survived Austin 8AP which was 100% captured with germans, maybe as BEF.
     

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  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Mal, your post seems to have been missed by the BEF armour specialists. It might be worth a try on this thread :-

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/1940/31764-markings-insignia-armour-bef-16.html

    The old Trux Models BEF site showed the theoretical establishment for an armoured regiment within 1st Armoured division as including 1 x 4-seater car and 1 x 2-seater so there is a chance that 9th Lancers had an 8hp Austin but probably the only possible confirmation of this might be found in the war diary listing vehicles embarked.

    I'd expect to see a 1st Armoured Div rhino on the nearside wing and the regiment's Arm of Service serial on the offside.

    Zaloga lists the Arm of Service marking for 9th Lancers as '5' on a red background and certainly the red ground ties in with expected practice for the senior brigade.

    The only way to be sure about the finish would be to find a photograph. They can't have had much time to apply disruptive over the Khaki Green No.3 base colour and a car would not have been right up at the sharp end.
     
  4. bigmal

    bigmal Member

    Thanks for the replies, chaps

    Malcolm
     
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Perhaps not the correct place for this photo - the Morris Commercials are probably ex-BEF though.

    The caption on the rear is the interesting bit as it sheds some light on how the German troops viewed the captured vehicles.:)

    [​IMG]

    More or less "Captured British Morris trucks are much better than ours"
     
  6. rewdco

    rewdco Senior Member

    More or less "Captured British Morris trucks are much better than ours"

    "Vorsprung durch Technik" :D:D:D

    Jan
     
  7. Robert Cassell

    Robert Cassell Junior Member

    I am a new member, and must congratulate everyone on a magnificent site.
    I am currently making a model of a Leyland Retreiver as part of a collection of BEF vehicles. I have searched the site without success for a set of authentic markings, but this has now been further complicated as I have been told that all Retreivers with the BEF were of the open cab variety (the kit is a windscreen version). Could any member help?

    I have seen no reference to model making on the site, I'm sure that I'm not the only member to do so, perhaps this could be a seperate thread,

    Bob
     
  8. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    I am a new member, and must congratulate everyone on a magnificent site.
    I am currently making a model of a Leyland Retreiver as part of a collection of BEF vehicles. I have searched the site without success for a set of authentic markings, but this has now been further complicated as I have been told that all Retreivers with the BEF were of the open cab variety (the kit is a windscreen version). Could any member help?

    I have seen no reference to model making on the site, I'm sure that I'm not the only member to do so, perhaps this could be a seperate thread,

    Bob

    Bob

    I think I started like you but now all I care about is finding out the information.

    In general if you want to model BEF equipment accurately you will find that it mostly differs from similar equipment later in the war. Not least because the BEF left most of its equipment in France!

    Here is a picture of an early Retriever model which may help you (not my model but a picture that I found somewhere a long time ago).

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=58135&stc=1&d=1312731464

    and here is a real one:

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=58138&stc=1&d=1312731815

    It is not easy to be describe a complete set of markings but a little searching on this site should yield some results. I also have an article on Leyland Retriever models that may help so, if you send me a private message with your e-mail address I will send it to you.

    Andrew
     

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  9. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Mal, your post seems to have been missed by the BEF armour specialists. It might be worth a try on this thread :-

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/1940/31764-markings-insignia-armour-bef-16.html

    The old Trux Models BEF site showed the theoretical establishment for an armoured regiment within 1st Armoured division as including 1 x 4-seater car and 1 x 2-seater so there is a chance that 9th Lancers had an 8hp Austin but probably the only possible confirmation of this might be found in the war diary listing vehicles embarked.

    I'd expect to see a 1st Armoured Div rhino on the nearside wing and the regiment's Arm of Service serial on the offside.

    Zaloga lists the Arm of Service marking for 9th Lancers as '5' on a red background and certainly the red ground ties in with expected practice for the senior brigade.

    The only way to be sure about the finish would be to find a photograph. They can't have had much time to apply disruptive over the Khaki Green No.3 base colour and a car would not have been right up at the sharp end.

    I agree with all that Rich says and some. In fact Alan Philson's excellent and detailed books shown an Armoured Regiment as having 1 two seater car in every squadron, including the HQ squadron, so four altogether. I also attach two microscopic pictures of Austins with 1st Armoured.

    The first has a different unit with an AoS number 19 and a huge rhino.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=58139&stc=1&d=1312734865


    On the second you can't seen any AoS sign but it has everything else. It was probably slowed down by the weight of its enormous markings.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=58140&stc=1&d=1312734989

    Andrew
     

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  10. bigmal

    bigmal Member

    Many thanks, i`ve not seen the 2nd photo before, very helpful.
    I can get started on the Austin now.

    Malcolm
     
  11. Neilie

    Neilie Member

    Hi Bob,

    I too am modelling a BEF Retriever and using the Revell (ex-Matchbox) Monty's Caravan. I am modelling it as a GS version, have built the body and removed the windscreen, replacing it with the rolled up weather curtains (from the caravan body). I've also made the two straps at the front to hold down the cab tilt.
    As far as markings, I am using an AoS marking, WD numbers and no unit insignia as from what I can see, some vehicles had them and some didn't or at least not visible in photos.
    If you care to P/M me I can send you what info I have.

    Good luck!

    Cheers,

    Neil
     
  12. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Theirs a nice picture of a Leyland Retreiver Gantry lorry here Shetland Museum - Photo Library , pre 1940 vehicles but post 1940 pics on Shetland .
    Shetland Website worth a look for many nice clear pics of Army RAF RN vehicles WW1 -WW2 (and ships and planes) stationed there .
    The RAF Crossley looks like it could be in Belgium not Shetland !
    Only one Norton combo Rich.
    Craig
     

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    Deadly Birds likes this.
  13. Robert Cassell

    Robert Cassell Junior Member

    Thanks JCB, very interesting, especially the body on the Crossley,
    Bob
     
  14. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks JCB. Is the Leyland badged to REME ?

    The Norton has census number C4592117 and interestingly, machine C4592115 appears in Orchard & Madden's British Forces motorcycles book, photographed in North Africa wearing Free French markings which highlights just how far apart machines from the same contract could end up.
     
  15. rewdco

    rewdco Senior Member

    Good find! Don't think we've ever seen pictures of 2 vehicles with numbers that close! Interesting indeed to see that they were sent to completely different locations! :sign_wow:

    Jan
     
  16. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Theirs a nice picture of a Leyland Retreiver Gantry lorry here Shetland Museum - Photo Library , pre 1940 vehicles but post 1940 pics on Shetland .
    Shetland Website worth a look for many nice clear pics of Army RAF RN vehicles WW1 -WW2 (and ships and planes) stationed there .
    The RAF Crossley looks like it could be in Belgium not Shetland !
    Only one Norton combo Rich.
    Craig

    Craig

    That is really a very good site. The Crossley is a very clear picture. I wonder if Ted Angus has seen these pictures?

    Andrew
     
  17. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    I know , I wonder if they were took by the local press , seems like a lot of older vehicle were sent up there and retained ( not surprising really) . The RAF Crossley body is strange, the bench seats seem 4ft of the floor .
    Their's also a lot of good pictures of Bedford - Scammel artics with Tillys and Tourers :)
     

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  18. ted angus

    ted angus Senior Member

    Morning lads, yes I first saw these about 4 years ago and passed some info on the vehicle markings to my old pal Brian Baxter at Aborfield. Originally the pictures could only be downloaded in a much smaller version with copyright marks all over them.
    It was sometime last year they changed the format. I think a lot of stuff went up there early in the war and lasted well due to the static nature of their life. Most of the vehicles are at the youngest mid 1940 models. Some cracking RAF stuff on there !! The vast majority are post war recording the drawdown. I believe the Bedford OW pantec in one shot which has a PS reg had been sold by the RAF must dig into that.

    Must apologise that I didn't relate the shots I had stashed away to their relevance here sorry guys.
    TED
     
  19. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Thanks JCB. Is the Leyland badged to REME ?

    The Norton has census number C4592117 and interestingly, machine C4592115 appears in Orchard & Madden's British Forces motorcycles book, photographed in North Africa wearing Free French markings which highlights just how far apart machines from the same contract could end up.

    I can add that by 1943 the formation sign for 'Orkney and Shetland Defences' was a St Andrew's Cross in white on a yellow backgound. If there are any 'AA Units in Orkneys and Shetlands' lurking around they might show a red anchor on a blue background.

    Other less likely contenders with a white St Andrew's Cross would be North Highland District on a purple background, West Scotland District on red and East Scotland on green.

    Andrew
     
  20. lesfreathy

    lesfreathy Member

    A couple of Morris 8 cwt PU i believe taken in France or possibly Belgium?
    cheers
    Les
     

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