Hi Andrew, The information regarding colour of the Unit Code sign confuses me a little, as you stated before green top left ,red at bottom right. In your book it shows red top left and green bottom right, or reversed green bottom left and red top right. Oh my god I have completely lost it!! So did it matter which way the colours were presented? Also was the Divisional Sign and Unit Code painted on the back of the Austin 8hp? You and the book are right - I should have said: "I would say the car belongs to one of the RASC units and I would make the background red/green split diagonally from bottom left to top right with the red at top left, green bottom right." In other words, 1st Armoured Division RASC looks like it had the same arrangement of red/green colours as for GHQ 'Army' RASC vehicles. I have corrected my previous post. Not sure about markings on the back. I recall just seeing the census number without the 'M' across the back of the boot on another Austin 8 HP. Andrew
Hi Andrew, The information regarding colour of the Unit Code sign confuses me a little, as you stated before green top left ,red at bottom right. In your book it shows red top left and green bottom right, or reversed green bottom left and red top right. Oh my god I have completely lost it!! So did it matter which way the colours were presented? Also was the Divisional Sign and Unit Code painted on the back of the Austin 8hp? Hi Andrew, Thanks for sorting out the Unit Code sign infomation. Yes you are definately correct about the rear of the Austin 8hp, as in the book The Fall of France, Act With Daring, by Martin Marix Evans. On page 153 it shows a couple of them, the furthest one has the WD number across the back. The photo says Cherbourg, the dockside. Thanks again, Colonel Durnford.
The pics I have seen of the Morris CD Recce Car also have just a number, without the M in front. I wish I had seen just one pic with both the civilian and military registrations both visible! Chris
The pics I have seen of the Morris CD Recce Car also have just a number, without the M in front. I wish I had seen just one pic with both the civilian and military registrations both visible! Chris Hi Chris, Yes I know, it is rather frustrating that there are no photos with such evidence regarding the Morris CD Recce Car. I have the Bull Models kit waiting to be built, perhaps sometime in the near future? I will keep looking through books to help find some information too. Smart looking vehicle eh? Colonel Durnford.
Hi Colonel I have to say that the Bull Models affair is not so impressive as the Dinky Toy version which I owned more years ago than I care to admit, but I'm part way through the construction of it. Mine will have the civvy registration of one vehicle and the military registration of another! Yes it is a good looking vehicle. Chris
You and the book are right - I should have said: "I would say the car belongs to one of the RASC units and I would make the background red/green split diagonally from bottom left to top right with the red at top left, green bottom right." In other words, 1st Armoured Division RASC looks like it had the same arrangement of red/green colours as for GHQ 'Army' RASC vehicles. I have corrected my previous post. Not sure about markings on the back. I recall just seeing the census number without the 'M' across the back of the boot on another Austin 8 HP. Andrew Hi Andrew, On the photos of the Austin 8hp, were the headlights painted over or like the tanks and motorcycles, a card inserted into the lense? Colonel Durnford.
Hi Andrew, On the photos of the Austin 8hp, were the headlights painted over or like the tanks and motorcycles, a card inserted into the lense? Colonel Durnford. Can't see from the photos I have - see attached example. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=84010&stc=1&d=1336939830 But BEF regulation from 3 February, effective 31st March, was for all front facing lamps to have two coats of regulation blue paint inside the glass. I don't know what was applied to vehicles coming over from the UK but they should have been so altered before being used in France. Andrew
Can't see from the photos I have - see attached example. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=84010&stc=1&d=1336939830 But BEF regulation from 3 February, effective 31st March, was for all front facing lamps to have two coats of regulation blue paint inside the glass. I don't know what was applied to vehicles coming over from the UK but they should have been so altered before being used in France. Andrew Hi Andrew, Very interesting information, thanks once again. Was the regulation paint a dark blue? Thank you for posting the photo too. Colonel Durnford.
A couple of ebay pics , well stowed 25 pounder ? and some abandoned trucks at a place that appears in quite a few unit diaries Moere.
I wonder if that's Les Moeres? It's just inside the outter boundary and looking how straight the road is it could be somewhere along the D947.
jcb: that's basically an 18 pounder gun, though it could well be an 18/25 pounder. Different barrel contour! And the nearest truck looks French; ours did not have all that wood above the load bed! Chris
I had a feeling it might be an 18pndr. artillery not my thing and was also unsure about the trucks , which are my thing Yes your right with tilts off British lorries usually just have metal tubular frames. Craig
To the panel -Lots of German ebay pictures have ' Frankenreich ' in the title what does this mean exactly ? Craig
'Frankenreich' is the old Germanic spelling for the land of the Franks or modern-day France. The correct spelling for 'our' period is 'Frankreich' Mis-spellings are frequent on those old photo captions.
But BEF regulation from 3 February, effective 31st March, was for all front facing lamps to have two coats of regulation blue paint inside the glass. I don't know what was applied to vehicles coming over from the UK but they should have been so altered before being used in France. Andrew Andrew, the aspect of the blue painted glasses is most interesting. My Norton appeared to have traces of blue paint on the headlamp rim (the glass was long gone). It appeared to be the same shade as the RE cobalt blue on the rear number plate and I had wondered if 2 Div HQRE had displayed their AoS serial on the headlamp front. It looks to me as if they painted the outside of the glass in this case. The only reference that I've yet seen to blue glasses is in the Diary for No. 2 Provost and they don't seem to have applied the blue until one of the scares and associated preparations for advancing into Belgium on 11th April. I'd rather forgotten that I'd read it and assumed at the time that the 'blue lamp' had a police function and related to their traffic control duties on the advance. The wording of the diary doesn't make it clear if the whole division or just the Provost Company adapted their lights. My headlamp reflector showed that it had been half painted black and this form of masking which continued with the manilla masks is also visible in photographs showing broken headlamps.
Rich I can't find much more on this at present but vehicle lighting comes up in a number of files so I should collate it. I had assumed that the 'regulation' blue was azure blue which I suspect was used for other purposes too. Could your guys have used cobalt blue just because they had some when they were instructed to paint the headlamps? The instruction of 3 February (concerning forward facing lamps) also said 'no blacking of reflectors and no masking of lamps' so perhaps your blacking pre-dated this order? Finally - what is the background about manilla? I have not seen this before but I have seen something like crumpled paper inside a lorry's nearside headlamp. Andrew
Thanks Andrew. As a practising BEF vehicle user (with an interest in the period, I must concede) I'd be pleased to see anything that you can turn up about lighting regs. My tail light had a black card mask rolled around the inside to cover up the number plate lighting - there was no masking of the rear red area but they were pretty small on Lucas MT110 lamps anyway. I can't find a photo of it on file so I'll take another one. This is an image of a period Lucas 8" black manilla mask (the dimensioning is recent). The characteristic half round cut-out is visible on many (most ?) BEF motorcycle photographs but these mostly date from late 1939 / early 1940. This system remained in use in the UK for a year or two, much to the annoyance of civilian drivers who were fined for not fitting expensive proprietary masks which complied with the regulations.
Andrew, the aspect of the blue painted glasses is most interesting. My Norton appeared to have traces of blue paint on the headlamp rim (the glass was long gone). It appeared to be the same shade as the RE cobalt blue on the rear number plate and I had wondered if 2 Div HQRE had displayed their AoS serial on the headlamp front. It looks to me as if they painted the outside of the glass in this case. The only reference that I've yet seen to blue glasses is in the Diary for No. 2 Provost and they don't seem to have applied the blue until one of the scares and associated preparations for advancing into Belgium on 11th April. I'd rather forgotten that I'd read it and assumed at the time that the 'blue lamp' had a police function and related to their traffic control duties on the advance. The wording of the diary doesn't make it clear if the whole division or just the Provost Company adapted their lights. My headlamp reflector showed that it had been half painted black and this form of masking which continued with the manilla masks is also visible in photographs showing broken headlamps. Hi Gentlemen, thankyou for sharing this information, it has helped me very much. Especially for future model projects, keep it up lads!!!
Thanks for Frankreich answer Rich . Talking of models if you want to motorise your BEF Battalion in 1.76 scale Oxford Diecast are making a great range of accurate models for a few quid each. Curently listing Military Wolseley 18/85, Austin Tilly, Bedford MW, Scammell Recovery/Artillery tractors, AEC Matadors and it looks like Bedford OX and OY are in the pipeline . Theirs also a civvy Morris 8 and a forthcoming BSA with sidecar ( not seen a pic of this yet so don't know what model) . Craig
Thanks for Frankreich answer Rich . Talking of models if you want to motorise your BEF Battalion in 1.76 scale Oxford Diecast are making a great range of accurate models for a few quid each. Curently listing Military Wolseley 18/85, Austin Tilly, Bedford MW, Scammell Recovery/Artillery tractors, AEC Matadors and it looks like Bedford OX and OY are in the pipeline . Theirs also a civvy Morris 8 and a forthcoming BSA with sidecar ( not seen a pic of this yet so don't know what model) . Craig In true BEF fashion I guess you buy the whole fleet and then leave it at someone else's house. Andrew
