Dismiss Notice

You must be 18 or over to participate here.
Dismiss this notice to declare that you are 18+.

Anyone below 18 years of age choosing to dishonestly dismiss this message is accepting the consequences of their own actions.
WW2Talk.Com will not approve of, or be held responsible, for your choices.

BEF rearguard action on the Nieuport-Dunkirk canal (May 29th till May 31st 1940)

Discussion in '1940' started by Christian Luyckx, Jan 13, 2025.

  1. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Abbreviations Dog Tags Wehrmacht
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Christian Luyckx

    Christian Luyckx Well-Known Member

    I sent you a PM with scans of the original list and the Excel-file I used to review the data.

    Thanks a lot for your help! :cheers:
    I'd clearly overreached myself here!
     
    Wobbler, ltdan and JimHerriot like this.
  3. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Well, I have 40 years of research experience under my belt – and being a native German speaker is also very helpful in this regard. :cheers:
     
    Wobbler and JimHerriot like this.
  4. Christian Luyckx

    Christian Luyckx Well-Known Member

    Very helpful ! Thanks for sharing Olli ! :salut:
     
    ltdan and JimHerriot like this.
  5. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Thanks so much for posting the pdf up Olli.

    As well as being so informative and useful it's illustrated to me what you and Christian are up against with this search!

    Good luck with all, to both of you, always,

    Jim.

    P.S. Searched your pdf Olli using find-in-page function with search term "falls" (as in fallschirmjäger) and it came up with nine hits, most of which do indeed have a fallschirmjäger ID connection :)

    Very useful to me Olli so a big cheers to you!
     
    Wobbler, ltdan and Christian Luyckx like this.
  6. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Seconded!

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
    ltdan and Christian Luyckx like this.
  7. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    From "Wulpen - Lijst gesneuvelde Duitse militairen (Situatie 11 Okt 1940)"

    39821 = Regimentsstab Infanterie-Regiment 476

    31115 = 5. Kompanie Infanterie-Regiment 476

    38088 = 5. Kompanie Infanterie-Regiment 481

    16388 = 3. Kompanie MG-Batillon 15

    7 JR 476 = 7.Kompanie Infanterie-Regiment 476 -> FPN 31115D

    Nr 14 in list (unknown flyer) 60015 = MoB-Nr. → 1.-3./J.G. 26
    (THAT is of course extremely exciting for me!)

    6054 = Pionier-Ersatz-Bataillon 20
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2025
  8. Christian Luyckx

    Christian Luyckx Well-Known Member

    I did not know you were a 'Schlageter' fan :D

    Allow me:

    On May 29th 1940, a Bf 109E belonging to III./JG26 made a forced landing near Beerst (3km NNE of Diksmuide). The plane was damaged (60%) This was probably the 'Gelbe 3' piloted by Oblt Wilhelm Fronhöfer. Fronhöfer survived, so it can't be the unknown airman buried in Wulpen.
    .
    On May 31st 1940, second Bf 109E, this time belonging to Stab I./JG26, was shot down by Hurricanes over Mannekensvere. The pilot, Oblt. Kurt Pielmeyer, parachuted but was KIA. On that date, two Bf 109s were claimed over Nieuport by F/O K. Manger, 17 Sqn.

    'Les pertes de la chasse allemande de jour en Belgique - Tome I (p.34)': "Ce 31 mai, l'Oblt. Kurt Pielmeyer est engagé sur Dunkerque et combat des Spitfire (? Sic). Le moteur de sa machine, touché, laisse échapper de la fumée. Le jeune officier décide de sauter en parachute mais ce dernier ne se déploie pas et l'aviateur s'écrase près de Nieuport. Des soldats du Génie (1./Pi.Btl. 256) qui occuperont les lieux quelques jours plus tard trouveront sa tombe dans un jardin le long de la route Mannekensvere-St. Georges."

    Finally, a third Bf 109E (the second one claimed by F/O Manger?), belonging to 2./JG26, was also shot down over Nieuport on May 31st. The aircraft crashed west of Nieuport. Uffz Josef Richter KIA.

    As I see it, there is a good chance your research shall establish that, either Pielmeyer or Richter, was the airman buried in Wulpen.

    PS: there is also a Bf109E that was shot down that day in the same region, but it belonged to I./JG20 and it allegedly crashed into the sea.

    KR,
    Christian
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2025
    JimHerriot, Wobbler and ltdan like this.
  9. PegasusBMF

    PegasusBMF New Member

    I've read this topic with great interest as I have an interest in 22/Field Regt, RA.

    I've searched Ancestry for hours and cannot find a copy of their War Diary for the period - PLEASE could some kind soul provide a link?
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  10. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Just a nerd with a slight obsession with deformed aluminium regardless of origin :cool:

    I would guess that this is the one:
    31st May 1940.
    2/JG26.
    Messerschmitt Bf109E. Operational sortie. Shot down by RAF Hurricane and crashed in the Channel off Dunkirk, France, 1.20pm. Uffz. Josef Richter (FF) killed (Washed ashore at Wulpen, Belgium). Aircraft lost

    source: https://de.findagrave.com/memorial/220301407/josef-richter
     
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Was the kill claimed ?
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  12. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    To complete the picture (no pun), Pielmeyer's field grave: Pielmeyer.jpg
     
  13. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    At the end of his years probation, Manger was granted an RAF short service commission. 17 Squadron were now fighting over France, covering the BEF, from Hawkinge. Manger destroyed a Ju87 and damaged another on 17th May, damaged a Me110 on the 18th, shared a Do17 on the 25th, damaged another on the 26th, destroyed two Do17s on the 29th, shot down a Me109 and damaged another on the 31st.
    source: Battle of Britain London Monument - P/O K Manger
     
  14. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Pilot Officer Ken Manger has come up.on the forum previously, amongst so many others, courtesy of the good work of Clive, forum member CL1.

    So it Began.....Their Finest Hour

    Always remember, never forget,

    Jim.
     
    Wobbler and Christian Luyckx like this.
  15. Christian Luyckx

    Christian Luyckx Well-Known Member

    Sorry for playing devil's advocate, but "Crashed in the Channel off Dunkirk"? "Washed ashore at Wulpen"? This simply doesn't add up.

    Wulpen is located roughly 4 km from the beach (Oostduinkerke-Bad). If Richter crashed in sea, there is no way his body could have ended up in Wulpen.
    The only (though very improbable) scenario I can imagine is that Richter somehow crashed into the canal.
     
    ltdan, Wobbler and JimHerriot like this.
  16. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    The sea, as you know Christian, moves in a mysterious way. It does strange things.

    And presumably, maybe, pilot baled out before his plane went in?

    Maybe some distance between where pilot and aircraft hit the water?

    That's even more devil's advocate stuff (apologies!)

    Kind regards, and good luck with cracking it, always,

    Jim.
     
    Wobbler and Christian Luyckx like this.
  17. Christian Luyckx

    Christian Luyckx Well-Known Member

    Hallo Jim,

    I'm still dubitative... The sea indeed moves in mysterious ways, but I'm nonetheless having a hard time buying that a corps at sea could float upstream 3 miles, against the currents, into an estuary, then somehow gets by a blocked sluice (at Nieuwpoort) to eventually end up 2 miles further in a canal.

    I also thought of the scenario of the pilot bailing out over land whilst his plane goes crashing in sea.

    The corpse buried at Wulpen could not be formally identified on the spot by the Germans. Even in October 1940, the body still was listed as 'unknown'. Apparently, the only clue they had as to his identity was '60015' (which Ollie linked to JG26) and the fact that he belonged to the Luftwaffe. This would suggest that the poor devil's body must have been almost completely unrecognizable (i.e. a lot of bits and pieces), which is more consistent with a big crash/explosion that with a bail-out.

    Let's wait and see what Ollie comes up with.

    KR,
    Christian
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2025
    ltdan, Wobbler and JimHerriot like this.
  18. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    He could have (if able) baled out anywhere in the vicinity Christian.

    Overland yes, but then carried by the wind into the sea, especially if he'd got out of the aircraft at height.

    Without going too deeply into the effects of long term immersion (five months) on the human body in seawater, highly unlikely any large amount of soft/connective tissue left. Uniform/clothing would have been holding his remains (mostly bone) together.

    Still in the aircraft? Strapped in? Even in five months the corpse would be unlikely to come free and reach the surface to be washed ashore anywhere, though I grant if he was dead or unconscious before he hit the water he, even if straps tightened to the enth degree, he could have been thrown clear.

    Whereas hitting the water, 'chute open or not, the effects of five months in a saltwater environment would cause the outcome on his corpse that you describe, given he washed ashore in October. Strapped in his aircraft and if undiscovered, for me, he'd be with it still.

    It will be hard to determine the whys and wherefores, unless any more reports from his colleagues who may have witnessed the incident come to light.

    I'm open minded on it Christian, and you are doing good work here, interesting work to me.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
    Wobbler and Christian Luyckx like this.
  19. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    :cheers:
    Well, let's see what we've got so far.

    General information
    When aircraft crash into water, they are often torn apart and the crews thrown out.
    It is also not unusual for the bodies of pilots who have been killed to wash ashore weeks later.

    Specifically:
    For the date in question, I have so far been able to identify four German KIA. In addition to Richter and Pielmann, these were
    Oblt. Christel Borries, Stab I./JG 20, who is buried in Norderney, and Uffz. Werner Frank, 3./JG 20, whose whereabouts I have not yet been able to determine.

    I cannot say with absolute certainty whether the unknown person on the list is actually Richter, hence ‘I would guess’.
    It could just as easily be any other pilot.

    The specific information that he was washed ashore ‘near Wulpen’ apparently comes from Steve Rob:
    https://de.findagrave.com/user/profile/50310108.
    Perhaps he can help clarify the matter.

    In general, 31 May was a busy day.
    According to the files, I was able to narrow down two significant clashes between the RAF and the Luftwaffe on Friday, 31 May 1940:
    (Information subject to error)
    At 15:40: KG 27, JG26, 17 sqn, 213 sqn, 145 sqn, 246 sqn
    At 20:00: 801 Sqn, 241 Sqn, JG 20

    Pilots from JG 26 claimed 16 kills in the first engagement and four more in the second. Interestingly, Spitfires were mentioned in the German claims, but neither Skuas (801 Squadron) nor Defiants (246 Squadron) were mentioned.

    This illustrates very clearly how, in the chaos and stress of such intense air battles, overclaiming and misidentification were virtually standard practice.

    I have attached my preliminary search results in the attached Word document to provide a rough overview.
     

    Attached Files:

    JimHerriot and Christian Luyckx like this.
  20. Wobbler

    Wobbler Patron Patron

    I learned a new word today - dubitative.
     

Share This Page