BEF Casualties - 1940

Discussion in '1940' started by Buteman, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. JM Plantefeve

    JM Plantefeve New Member

    Hello Rob,

    BELGIUM - BEF CASUALTIES.pdf : thanks you for this great work !

    I’m French and live on north of France, your document permetted me to visit new memory places.
    But you have omitted a communal cemetery at Comines.

    Best regards,
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Well spotted J-M. Quite a substantial cemetery too.
  3. Hi, sorry to resurrect an old thread. I am researching my family history. My 2nd Great Uncle was possibly killed at Dunkirk (his records state missing, suspected drowned). He died on 27/28th May 1940. HOWEVER, he is buried in Sage War Cemetery, not far from Bremen, Germany. Obviously this is some way from Dunkirk.
    Family rumour states he wasn't buried for several years after his death, and that his belongings turned up randomly in the post to his parents 7years after he died. I'd like to ask why, in your opinion, he is buried in Germany? Is there any way to check the names of the 11 men that you mentioned in the original post to see if he is one of them? His name was Bertram Frederick England and he was a driver. I have his regimental number if required. Thank you. Laura
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  4. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    It appears he was reburied at Sage 21/07/1947 identified as simply F.Bertram originally his original burial is given here;-
    Casualty Details
  5. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Interesting post and thread.

    Sage it would appear became a concentration cemetery after the war where the dead were brought in from field graves and the like.Driver England's body,after death would have been probably washed ashore in the German Frisian Islands,ie East Frisian Islands and he would be buried there initially then transferred to Sage.The location of the concentration cemeteries would be as a result of Anglo/ West German agreement and usually the creation of concentration cemeteries started in the 1950s on the conclusion of such agreements.

    (Kyle, looking at the Register document,I see a date of 9/10/1956,I wonder if this records the transfer of remains to Sage.....where is the date of 21/7/1947 referenced?)

    Incidentally the effect of the northerly direction of the British Channel currents resulted in bodies being washed ashore beyond the Frisian Islands...some were washed as far as the Danish East Jutland shores.

    Regarding BEF unknown casualties,the Dunkirk Memorial.... over 4500 names listed..... contains the names of those who were declared missing without known graves at locations remote from the the Dunkirk area such as the Lancastria losses at St Nazaire on 17 June 1940.
  6. Thank you so much Kyle, I've never seen that document before even though I'd seen the other one. I know my Dad said there was confusion about his name (he was Bertram Frederick but went by Freddie) and that his surname was mistaken as meaning "from England" which may explain the lack of surname on the newer document. 1947 would tie in with the 7 years post-death that the family mention. I wonder if they didn't know where he was buried originally and that for some reason he was identified/they were informed about the re-burial, hence the stories about being buried "7 years after his death". So sad. Harry, that information about the currents etc is interesting. What an awful sight that must have been, to have men washing up on shore after some time at sea :-(
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  7. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hello Harry,

    The 1947 date is referenced on the `Concentration report` rather than the `Register document` . Perhaps the Red Cross can shed more light on this ? I dont know how he got to the area but at a guess I would say his `true` identity was only discovered on reburial ?



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