BEF Artillery Markings

Discussion in '1940' started by May1940, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    The '13' with a bar above is a corps marking for medium regt. (Howitzer). It looks like the III Corps marking so probably 56th Medium Regt.
     
  2. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    The '13' with a bar above is a corps marking for medium regt. (Howitzer). It looks like the III Corps marking so probably 56th Medium Regt.

    I concur Rich. The shape of the fig leaf is different to what I had previously seen in published sources but I have confirmed this is the BEF version on a couple of other pictures.

    Andrew
     
  3. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Andrew

    The (inspired) quess at 1 Heavy Regiment's sign was based on an IWM still photo and a frame from a newsreel of the same vehicle.
    [​IMG]
    The sign is under the gunner's arm.

    RW

    Rolfi

    Here are a couple more pics of a vehicle that I found the other day. They are from a DVD about the Phoney War. Not sure if they are in the UK or early France though. Good geometric markings but no AoS. Perhaps they will help. Blue then red with white below?

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=47489&stc=1&d=1300131508

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=47490&stc=1&d=1300131508

    By the way - I am currently unable to view any pictures posted via Imageshack. They seem to be playing games and asking websites (not forum members) to register with them. It doesn't seem to affect forum members in the UK (where I was last week) but it stops me seeing them when I log into the site from Dubai. Not fair eh?

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    I too have the feeling that those pictures could be UK rather than France. There's just 'something' about them. The tac marking types would have been the same of course.
     
  5. idler

    idler GeneralList

    There's just 'something' about them.

    Service Dress (though there is BD as well)? How significant is it if the film and the markings are pre-war? Could that also explain the lack of AoS plates as security would be less of an issue?

    Am I asking too many questions?
     
  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    All questions are good !

    I think that what makes it look 'Home' is that the respirator cases where carried are slung rather than ready. Generally on exercise in France they seem to have rehearsed the gas drill too, especially if there was a propaganda film unit in the vicinity.
     
  7. Hengiste

    Hengiste Junior Member

    Hi all, any inspired guesses/ info on 1RHA markings, captured at St Valery with The HD.
     
  8. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Hi all, any inspired guesses/ info on 1RHA markings, captured at St Valery with The HD.

    Hi Hengiste

    Since the unit serial number for 2 RHA was 25 I would guess 1 RHA was 24. Can I assume you have seen the markings for 2 RHA in Steven Zaloga's book Blitzkrieg and / or in pictures on this forum?

    Andrew
     
  9. Hengiste

    Hengiste Junior Member

    Yes, I saw the 2RHA on this site. I imagined that 1RHA would be 24, but these new Geometric shapes are intriguing me....

    Always imagined that the markings would be the normal blue/red horizontal bar combination, but this is fascinating.
     
  10. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    British AA guns may 1940 Belgium, still have a few unfired rounds left, must have left in a hurry, maybe a trench or dugout near the guns. Might be some kind of sign on left mudguard [numbers] not to good to make out. wonder if you could take out tanks with them?. Original photos from my collection.
     

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  11. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Keith

    Lovely pictures. I like the rugged tyres and the 'ready-use' ammo.

    On markings - if you go to posts 25,26 and 27 of the thread on BEF Army Troops markings you will see another 3 inch AA gun with a marking of 34 with white bar below. The marking would have appeared on the back mudguard so it could be seen when on tow and this is where it appears on post 25. Looking at your pictures I think there is a hint of what could be a marking but it is on the towbar end so probably unlikely.

    Andrew
     
  12. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Another IWM pic -Morris 8cwt -geometric door ? Arras Jan 1940
     

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  13. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    '13' at Corps level is a Medium Regiment but with no formation sign visible, it's not possible to know who. Is there anything further visible on the originals ?

    The background is quite a big city. Brussels ? I can't think of anywhere else that the British retreated through that is quite that grand.

    Hope this is better. the motor bike has 5 on it as well and there is a round sign to the left of the TLC all so 2 of the trucks have a large white square on the back. The truck behind the bike has a mark on it, stags head ? or horseshoe ? or just a mark, think there is some marks above it OC C ?.
     

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  14. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Hope this is better. the motor bike has 5 on it as well and there is a round sign to the left of the TLC all so 2 of the trucks have a large white square on the back. The truck behind the bike has a mark on it, stags head ? or horseshoe ? or just a mark, think there is some marks above it OC C ?.

    Rich / Keith

    How about the abandoned vehicles of Ark Force? This advance unit went ahead to Le Havre to arrange the evacuation of 51st Division et al. The division never made it but I understand from Philson Vol 5 p24 that Ark Force was evacuated from Le Havre.

    Reasons: the shop/restaurant at the back looks like it has the name Le Petit Havre; the stag's head on the truck at the back represents 51st Division which had several units with Ark Force; the 5 could be units of 17 or 75 Field Artillery also with Ark Force; the truck with 13 could be 51st Medium Regt also with Ark Force, although that should have 12 with bar above (maybe they just borrowed a truck, maybe 51st Medium was 13.)

    A good way to confirm would be to have a local historical lampost expert ID the very specific type of lampost in the picture. Is such a skill in Jan's armoury?

    Andrew
     
  15. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Rich / Keith

    How about the abandoned vehicles of Ark Force? This advance unit went ahead to Le Havre to arrange the evacuation of 51st Division et al. The division never made it but I understand from Philson Vol 5 p24 that Ark Force was evacuated from Le Havre.

    Reasons: the shop/restaurant at the back looks like it has the name Le Petit Havre; the stag's head on the truck at the back represents 51st Division which had several units with Ark Force; the 5 could be units of 17 or 75 Field Artillery also with Ark Force; the truck with 13 could be 51st Medium Regt also with Ark Force, although that should have 12 with bar above (maybe they just borrowed a truck, maybe 51st Medium was 13.)

    A good way to confirm would be to have a local historical lampost expert ID the very specific type of lampost in the picture. Is such a skill in Jan's armoury?

    Andrew

    I do believe that you might be on to something. This post looks the same to me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Quite sad how badly Havre suffered in 1944. It doesn't look like that now.

    The image came from this rather nice forum :-

    PSS - Le Forum de discussion / Le Havre - photos anciennes
     
  16. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Well done All :agree:
     
  17. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    I do believe that you might be on to something. This post looks the same to me.

    Quite sad how badly Havre suffered in 1944. It doesn't look like that now.

    The image came from this rather nice forum :-

    PSS - Le Forum de discussion / Le Havre - photos anciennes

    Rich

    An amazing find. I didn't expect such a quick result. A nice forum too.

    Andrew
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    I had a bit of luck with the lamposts but it seems that there are few places in France not featured on websites with old postcards. The biggest problem in Northern France is that most of the early 1900s locations were blown off the map in '14-'18

    The chap who posted on the forum has his own blog on Le Havre photos and he's still very active.

    Le Havre en photo

    Keith, would you mind if we contacted him for confirmation of the location with a copy of the photo?

    It looks like the 'Cours de la Republique"' to me.

    cours de la republique - Le Havre en cartes postales

    Rich
     
  19. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Another IWM pic -Morris 8cwt -geometric door ? Arras Jan 1940

    Craig

    I have seen this chequerboard marking before but am not sure if it is an artillery marking as it doesn't really conform to the 'circles and triangles' patterns that we have been identifying - could it be some other unit marking?

    Andrew
     
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Craig

    I have seen this chequerboard marking before but am not sure if it is an artillery marking as it doesn't really conform to the 'circles and triangles' patterns that we have been identifying - could it be some other unit marking?

    Andrew

    The chequerboard usually indicates schools and establishments. I'm not sure when the sign came into use though and it's generally seen on the usual formation sign location in the case of driver training schools.
     

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