BEF Ambulance Vehicles

Discussion in '1940' started by 4/7 RDG, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. 4/7 RDG

    4/7 RDG Member

    Sorry to be asking rather than "giving" in my first post on this forum, but does anyone have photographs or details of any of the ambulance vehicles used in France/Belgium in 1940? I found an Austin K2/Y on one of the threads, but this was in Dover and presumably not one used "in theatre". The only other examples seem to be mostly hidden behind other vehicles. There are hints that almost any van or truck was adapted for use as an ambulance, but I am not sure if this is what happened :unsure:

    I am particularly interested in markings, both RASC and RAMC, but any pictures or information would be useful.
     
  2. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    If you want photos of a K2 ambulance view Loftys superb thread on restoring a K2 from a relic found in a wood. Also try the IWM photo collection they will probably have in theater pictures which you can purchase.

    Forgot Welcome to the forum 4/7RDG
     
  3. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Hi

    I don’t know much about the organisation of ambulances between the RAMC and RASC but here is a bit about ambulances I have seen.

    The Heavy Ambulance used a wooden framed rear body developed by Mann Egerton and the Royal Army Medical Corps. The chassis used with essentially that same body were:

    Morris Commercial CD 6x4 30 cwt
    Morris Commercial CS11/30F 4x2 30 cwt
    Austin K2 4x2 30 cwt
    Bedford ML 30 cwt
    Bedford commercial lorry 4x2 3 ton

    I have seen pictures of all except the Bedford ML with the BEF in France. I agree that clear pictures showing complete vehicles in France are not easy to find. Post # 33 in the thread 'BEF 'Army Troops' Vehicle Arm of Service Markings (and others)' shows the front of a Morris Commercial CD 6x4 with the AoS marking 90 with a white bar below denoting ‘Army Troops’.


    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41613&stc=1&d=1291451281

    According to Hodges and Taylor in 'British Military Markings', AoS markings for field ambulances would include:

    • At Corps level, together with the Corps badge, 54 on black with a white bar above.
    • At Divisional level, together with the divisional badge, 27,28 or 29 on black with no bar.
    Red crosses appear on a single small white disc centred above the cab at the front and the same above the rear doors at the back, plus small white circles on the sides below the ventilator. Nothing appears on the roof. (Also I have never seen the giant red crosses on pictures in France.)

    I attach a side view of a Morris-Commercial CD 6x4 in Calais with an AoS plate showing 54 with a bar above (bottom of left door). Sometimes the AoS plate appears on the door.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41612&stc=1&d=1291451175

    Andrew
     
    Capt Bill and Jedburgh22 like this.
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    [​IMG]

    F 4301
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE 1940

    Austin K2 Ambulance, 9 May 1940.
     
  5. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    Attached Files:

  6. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I am not very good at adding images but here is a link to a WW2 Ambulance and crew.

    Google Image Result for http://www.iwight.com/images/04.jpg

    That's not a 1940 BEF vehicle, it's later in the war.
     
  8. 4/7 RDG

    4/7 RDG Member

    Wow, what a helpful bunch you are! Thanks to everyone for the replies, pics and details. May1940's list of vehicles with the same body attached explains a lot. Owen - do you have a larger image of the IWM photo, please?

    Much appreciated - and plenty for me to collate and write up.
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  10. 4/7 RDG

    4/7 RDG Member

    Thanks for that, I have already been on the site and found it!
     
  11. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    That's not a 1940 BEF vehicle, it's later in the war.
    :mad: Well I did try :D
     
  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    As Andrew says, the Mann bodies are the most common but there is also evidence of impressed vehicles.

    This looks like an ML to me but not the sort than Andrew is referring to.

    [​IMG]

    It's not clear if the coachbuilt body is fitted out as an ambulance or was simply an RASC vehicle taken over for casualty transport. The markings don't really follow regulations.

    Vanderveen states that the British Army had some 1700 ambulances at the outbreak of war, one-fifth of which were impressed vehicles.
     
  13. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    As Andrew says, the Mann bodies are the most common but there is also evidence of impressed vehicles.

    This looks like an ML to me but not the sort than Andrew is referring to.

    [​IMG]

    It's not clear if the coachbuilt body is fitted out as an ambulance or was simply an RASC vehicle taken over for casualty transport. The markings don't really follow regulations.

    Vanderveen states that the British Army had some 1700 ambulances at the outbreak of war, one-fifth of which were impressed vehicles.

    The Army Medical Service also had mobile Xray units, Laboratory vehicles and even mobile Blood Transfusion teams attached to some field hospitals.
     
  14. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    All the BEF ambulances I've seen in photos ( except one above) have been the 'proper article' rather than impressed.Of course in extremis any transport could carry the wounded.
    Its funny but in the many accounts I've read of the retreat no one seems to run out of petrol ! was there so much stores around .
    One officer runs out of drivers , very few people drove in those days and he curses the fact that during the phoney war every man in the battalion could have been taught to drive.
     
  15. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    I agree with Rich - that is not the type of Bedford ML ambulance I had in mind. This one looks like an impressed vehicle - but what? A horse box or a furniture van? I have trawled the net and can find nothing Bedford with quite the same shape.

    Andrew
     
  16. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The Bedford certainly has unusual coachwork. The luton cab is not high enough to make it much use as a removals pantechnicon.

    I think though that Medic7922 might well be thinking on the right lines. This is an IWM image of a Field Transfusion unit :-

    [​IMG]

    Once again we see the same 'field applied' markings (or were they always different for support vehicles ?)
     
  17. Capt Bill

    Capt Bill wanderin off at a tangent

    my brother in law used to own, up until about 10 years ago, a Bedford OX.

    It was marked appropriately with red crosses etc but it wasnt an ambulance, it was a mobile x-ray developing unit which would be parked up with a hospital unit

    (just thought I'd fling that one into the mix)
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi
    Morris Commercial CD 6x4 30 cwt
    Morris Commercial CS11/30F 4x2 30 cwt
    Austin K2 4x2 30 cwt
    Bedford ML 30 cwt
    Bedford commercial lorry 4x2 3 ton

    I have seen pictures of all except the Bedford ML with the BEF in France. Andrew

    Just a thought Andrew. JCB thought that this one might be a Bedford :-

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachments/1940/41438d1291130680-bef-army-troops-vehicle-arm-service-markings-others-bundesarchiv_bild_101i-383-0337-_frankreich_calais-jpg

    The windscreen doesn't look wide enough to me for a Bedford and I'm in two minds about the front scuttle but there appears to be no spare wheel 'ear' either open or closed. Did all K2s have the same location for the spare ?
     
  19. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    It is difficult to tell but it is probably a K2 because the front 'bumper' is smooth and on the Bedford it is ribbed. Also, there is more of a gap between the top of the windscreen and the cab roof on the Bedford. See sample picture. I think on the Calais picture the spare wheel door is missing or open and there is a hole there instead.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41684&stc=1&d=1291583150

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  20. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    I thought the Calais one was Bedford because of the cut away at bottom of front wings but
    A.Austins have it as well ( not called the Birmingham Bedfords for no reason!)
    B.It might be a piece of wood in foreground
    so think you 're right:)
     

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