BEF 1940 Vehicle markings.

Discussion in '1940' started by Owen, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The order dated 7th March is of interest to me but I'm not sure if it is suggesting that only the Commander, Royal Engineers used the blue plate or the entire HQ. Perhaps there will be later clarification / amendment ?

    Andy, if you come across any reference to paint supplies / colours / camouflage then I'd be keen to see it, likewise any references to Gas Detector paint.
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    All the formation stuff I found in the file has been posted. I read the Admin Order dated 7th March as just the Commanders.

    I've finished the A & Q files now and there was a mention of paint for camouflage but that was pretty much it, just a mention and nothing significant.

    I posted a list of all the Anti-Gas equipment used by the BEF etc.
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    If the Admin order was not superseded later then my Norton must have been the C.R.E.'s personal machine. I think though that somewhere between that order and the W.O. letter of early April, there must have been a general change (or else, as often happens, orders were amended to reflect current practice).

    Anything on paint would be good, even if only referring to 'Signwriter's White'.

    I read the Anti-Gas lists with interest. However, I suppose that detection wouldn't necessarily fall under that heading.
  5. Noel Burgess

    Noel Burgess Senior Member

    My understanding is that "C.R.E." refered both to the man and to the unit, This based chiefly on the fact that I have not seen any name or description for his HQ unit other than CRE so there was a Commander R.E. and his headquaters staff both referred to as C.R.E.
    Same would apply to other Corps/Divisional Commanders (RE, RASC Etc.)

  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    My conclusion comes from the Admin Order as it does say 'Certain Heads of the Branches at Corps and Div HQ'
  7. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Just wanted to say thank you for posting all this. It is simply stunning to see so much detail when I thought that no such documemts existed. Is there likey to be something similar for II and II Corps?

    Andrew Foulkes
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Andrew...I have my fingers crossed for when I get around to them ;)

    Nice user name by the way...I can tell you must be a very sensible chap :D

    Welcome to the forum by the way :)
  9. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Thanks and good luck with your further search.

  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Brian sent me this image. Its not 1940 but I thought still worthy of being posted on this thread. I'll add the file ref number when I get it incase anyone wishes to view the file.

  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Andy, the 1943 ACI is fairly well known and quoted in various publications. It's well known because it's in the right place. I suspect that the 1 Corps publication which you found had not previously been seen by someone looking at vehicle markings. To those researching corps structure, it probably didn't seem interesting.
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Brian suggested the following files at kew maybe of interest.

    WO 32/14398 - WO 201/2795 - WO 204/1277 - WO 204/4757 - WO 204/4765 - WO 204/7450 - and WO 204/8411.
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    From WO 32/11617

    There appears to be six volumes explaining everything-Anyone know what or where they are?

  14. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    The File carries the description of "History of Vehicle Markings during war 1939 - 1945".

    The only other Files that may give more are the ones I gave you, unless there is more with the R.L.C. Museum.
  15. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Another eBay German photograph showing one that I had not previously seen amongst BEF vehicles.

    Although I would have expected it to be on the other rear quarter of the Morris 8cwt, the white diamond can surely only be 12th (Eastern) Infantry Division ?

    If so, the '18' (on green) would indicate a vehicle abandoned by 7th QO R. West Kent Regt.

  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I wonder where it was taken. The road looks like it goes to a bridge (possibly a canal) near the house.
  17. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Do you think that you recognise it then Andy ?

    There was another photo in the set with notes on the back which referred to St Omer and Cassell. When you get to the War Diaries for QO R. West Kents, we may find out where they abandoned their kit.

    It looks to me as though there's quite a bit of French stuff around, judging by that outlined disruptive pattern.
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Not sure Rich..Nothing stands out apart from it looks near to a canal. Perhaps the Bergues/Furnes Canal-They still grow cabbages and the like in the area. I think the Camo vehicles are British-I've seen civilian lorries used by the BEF with hand painted camouflaged canvas backs.

    I think the factory will be the give away. It looks too flat to be Cassel but could be near it.
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Just as some additional info:

    7th Battalions The Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment were a labour Battalion in 12th Division, 36th Brigade.

    On 20th May 1940 7 RWK's were sent to Albert to hold it at all costs and were virtually wiped out there by the 1st and 2nd Panzer Divisions. Only 75 all ranks returned to the UK.
  20. idler

    idler GeneralList

    7 RWK were south of Arras. Clery 18 May, withdrew to Louvencort 19 May, moved forward to Albert 20 May, getting there half an hour before the Germans. These three towns are pretty much on one road so get searching...

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