Barbara Cartland's brothers.

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Owen, Oct 5, 2006.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Learnt something today about the late Dame Barbara Cartland. Her brothers
    were killed one day apart in 1940.

    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    Initials: J A H
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Captain
    Regiment/Service: Lincolnshire Regiment
    Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
    Age: 27
    Date of Death: 29/05/1940
    Service No: 58095
    Additional information: Son of Maj. James Bertrum Cartland and Mary Hamilton Cartland, of Poolbrook, Worcestershire. His brother, John R.H. died the following day and is buried at Hotton.
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: C. 68.

    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    Initials: J R H
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Major
    Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery
    Unit Text: 53 (The Worcestershire Yeomanry) Anti-Tank Regt.
    Age: 33
    Date of Death: 30/05/1940
    Service No: 70394
    Additional information: Son of Maj. James Bertram Falkner Cartland, The Worcester Regt., killed in action, 27th May, 1918, and of Mary Hamilton Cartland, of Poolbrook, Worcestershire. Member of Parliament for King's Norton Division of Birmingham, 1935-1940. His brother, James A.H. died the previous day and is buried at Zuidschote. Their sister was Barbara Cartland, authoress.
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: X. B. 1.

    What's even sadder is their father died in 1918.
    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    Initials: J B F
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Major
    Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment
    Unit Text: 1st Bn.
    Age: 42
    Date of Death: 27/05/1918
    Additional information: Husband of Mary Hamilton Cartland, late of Amerie Court, Pershore, Worcs.
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Here's John's grave in Hotton.
    edit: photo now lost.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I wonder if he died in captivity as his regiment was defending the area around Cassel with 48 Division on the 28th May-Notably some of the regiment were murdered at Wormhout.

  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Found several bits on info yesterday on this chap.

    He joined the Territorial Army 1937. By August 1939, he was a lieutenant in the Worcestershire and Oxfordshire Yeomanry. By the time the Germans invaded Holland and Belgium, Cartland was a Major serving in the 53rd Anti-Tank Regiment, (The Worcestershire Yeomanry) Royal Artillery.

    From 'The Queen's Own Worcestershire Hussars 1922 - 1956 by D.R. Guttery
    The full story of 209 Battery in its stubborn defence of Cassel will never be told, for it remains the personal property of that gallant battery Commander and brilliant young politician, Ronald Cartland. By his death not only the Regiment but this country lost one of its most outstanding young leaders.

    After the break-out from Cassel:
    A welcome ally, in the form of early morning mist, afforded some protection, and a surprised German despatch rider was "put in the bag". The mist cleared, and Major Cartland, with Lieuts. Woodward, Hutton-Squire and Freeker, and some 50 other ranks, were suddenly spotted and pinned down by enemy fire in the ditches bordering a lane about 20 miles from Cassel. At about 8am three tanks converged on them. They were cornered and with no anti-tank weapons. As Major Cartland rose from the ditch he was shot instantly. Lieut. Hutton-Squire was some hundred yards away from the head of the column, returning the German fire. When he saw the situation he called to Sergeant Prosser: "They won't capture me," as he ran off into a small plantation, chased by a German machine-gunner. A burst of fire told of his sad fate.

    From the Regimental War Diary regarding 209 Battery
    Its final action, West of Cassell, was splendidly fought, and it withdrew to th ebeach full of fight and in good fettle, inspite of heavy casualties, which included the Battery Commander and the Captain.

    From Assignment to Catastrophe Vol.2 - Spears dated Saturday, 8th June.
    The first thing I saw on Saturday morning was the announcement in The Times that my friend and parlimentary colleague Ronald Cartland was missing. It was thought he had been taken prisoner, but he had been killed when his battery most gallantly held up German tanks at Cassel.

    I was saddened by this, and imagined him fighting Nazis with the same gay smile with which he had fought for what he believed in in the House of Commons. Like me, he had detested Munich; we had both voted against our party on the same issues. I set off for Whitehall with the picture of my tall, slender, dark, roman-nosed young friend in my mind, but it faded like everything else, even my anxiety concerning my wife, when I sat down to work with Pug Ismay.
    Owen likes this.
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    As Major Cartland rose from the ditch he was shot instantly.

    It was thought he had been taken prisoner, but he had been killed

    Seriously wounded I assume as must have died on way to hospital in Germany hence burial in Hotton, Ardennes?
    Must have been PoW
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Not sure:

    Spears is quoting from The Times a few days after his death.

    The War Diary states the Battery Commander was killed.

    Casualties were taken to St Omer by the Germans from the Cassel area.

    All that said, Hotton is 150 miles from Cassel and troops started to file out of Cassel on the night of 29th May. No real clues in Cemetery details via CWGC either.
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just read this about 2 Lincs, maybe this is when James Cartland was killed.

    HyperWar: The War in France and Flanders 1939–1940 [Chapter XIV]

    29th May, 1940
    For the planned movements were duly carried out, though other units which constituted the rearguard also had a hard day's fighting to make this possible. The elements of the 50th and 3rd Divisions on the Poperinghe–Lizerne line suffered heavily from bombardment throughout the day. The enemy regained contact with the 50th Division rearguard by midday, and when later the time for withdrawal came, one company of the 8th Durham Light Infantry was cut off. The 3rd Division's rearguard on their left (the 8th and 9th Brigades) was vigorously attacked and some units were forced to yield ground. But the enemy made no substantial progress, though fighting continued till the time for further withdrawal, and then the 2nd Lincolnshire carriers had to counter-attack in order to free the battalion.[4] All units suffered severely in the day's fighting, but their front was unbroken.
  8. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    From the war diary of the 2nd Lincolns. 29th May at 19-30 hours. Captain Cartland believed captured. I can't find any mention of his death in the pages up to the end of June.

    Owen likes this.
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thanks Rob, does it say which Company he was in?
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Can you post the previous page to for the same day please.
  11. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Could be D, but I am not 100% sure.
  12. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Thanks to Genevra Charsley at Ypres, the photos of the other brother's grave and cemetery where he is buried are attached.

    Attached Files:

  13. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Sorry the other two were too large to upload so have put them on Flickr.


  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    BBC - WW2 People's War - Rearguard at Dunkirk

    The story of anti-tank gunner Harry Munn of 209/53 A/T Regiment Royal Artillery:

    On the night of the 16th May the Battery moved up to Waterloo near the scene of the 1815 battle. Next day a flight of Stukka bombers attacked our positions. Yorky Holme’s gun crew C4 consisted of Phil Plevey, Bert Tanner, George Bradley who were all killed, Ron Bingham and Yorky had multiple shrapnel wounds. Also present when the attack came was Russ Heseford the Sergeant of C2 gun crew who was also killed outright. Yorky and Ron Bingham were eventually evacuated to England and later in the war Ron was killed while serving as an officer in the R.A.F. air crews. Major Cartland, Mr Hutton-Squire, Bdr. Charlie Rennie, Dan R Len Griffiths and Driver George helped to bury our dead. In the tradition of the Regiment they were wrapped in white sheets. Years later I visited a little churchyard at St Pieter Liews just off the Brussels motorway where these of our casualties are now buried. The three Yeomanry graves are in the front row centre of a much greater number of Belgian soldiers graves. One bears the name and number of Phil Plevey, the other two bear the inscription "Unknown Soldier of the Worcestershire Yeomanry".

    That night Mr Hutton- Squire withdrew C Troops remaining 3 guns from their positions in the middle of the night. As the troop moved off C1 went into a ditch and extricated itself with great difficulty damaging the near side gun wheel in the process. Coming through the town of Tournai the damaged wheel of C1 gun came off. Now all the vehicles carried a spare gun wheel but none of them fitted the gun, this had been a well known fact but no action was taken to put it right. George Prosser, Frank Barber and myself found some very large nails in a nearby deserted café and managed drive them through the broken rivets and this enabled us to get the gun back into France. Mr Hutton-Squire eventually found a workshop unit who turned the spare wheel on a lathe until it fitted in a fashion. After some days trying to establish contact with the Regiment we ended up at the Headquarters of what I believe was the 2nd Division. After three days Mr Hutton-Squire came to the gun site and instructed Harry "Smiler" Clark, the driver of the C1 gun crew, and myself to get some sleep. Smiler was a Canadian who had worked in Kidderminster before the war and joined the T.A in 1938. He was later to make a dramatic escape from a P.O.W. camp in Poland and was awarded the D.C.M. It was now the policy to move at night as the German Luftwaffe had complete command of the skies, the driver and No 1 had to stay awake but the gun crew could snatch some fitful sleep in the back of the truck.

    Just before dusk the convoy started to form up. However while waiting to move off Lt.Col. Medley, Regimental Commander, and Major Cartland came walking down the road. I called the detachment to attention and Major Cartland said "I reported you missing some days ago". I replied that we were all in the convoy and that Mr Hutton-Squire was further down.

    Once again Major Cartland had his battery all together and after one day holding a position on the Belgian border he led us on to Cassel. Steep hills led in and out of the town and it was an ideal place to defend. Brigadier Somerset who commanded the Brigade put Major Cartland in charge of the anti-tank defences of the town and A.B.C Troops, 11 guns in all, were dug in around the town. The rest of the Regiment were formed into a flying column under the command of Col. Medley and sent to deal with "a few tanks" that had broken through our lines. One Troop of 211 Battery was left at Cassel to assist the 209 in the defence of the town. B Troop was sent from Cassel under the command of Lieut. Freeker to escort a company of the Welsh Guards. We heard later that the Welsh Guards were the bodyguard of the GIC of the B.E.F. Major General Gort VC. C Troop took over the position vacated by B Troop and as we moved in we came under heavy mortar fire from the Germans down on the plain below. We quickly put our gun into the shallow gun pit used by the 2pdr which and took cover in two slit trenches. Our trench held the gun crew which consisted of Frank Barber, Bill Vaux and myself. The second trench contained the Bren gun manned by H.A. "Tiny" James and the Boyes rifle manned by W. Anthony. Still under heavy mortar fire we stood looking out over the plain below and shortly afterwards we could see 24 tanks in line abreast coming towards our lines. They were too far away to be identified. Frank said "Do you think they are ours?" and I replied "I think it very bloody doubtful". As the tanks got nearer we could clearly see the Swastika flags on the front of each tank. Mr Hutton-Squire came to the position with Major Cartland saying to me "Tanks in your area Bombadier". I replied "I see them sir" and from then on they did not interfere with our handling of the situation.

    Meanwhile the German tanks had reached a small wood at the base of the ridge and halted there out of sight of our position. Directly below us was a gap in the wood where we expected the attack to come from and sure enough three tanks came through the gap about 600 yds from the gun site. I gave the order "Take post" and we manned the 2pdr. As the No 1 I gave the orders using the open sights on the gun which enabled the No 3 layer Frank Barber to pick up and follow the tank with his telescopic sight. The loader No 2 Bill Vaux had loaded the gun and the next order was "Fire!". Now the 2pdr shell had a tracer base and this enabled you to see where it went. Our first shot went straight and true for its target but at almost the point of impact the tank dipped into a small trough in the ground and the shell passed in front of the turret. From our point of view this could not have been worse. The tracer base enabled the German tank commander to know he was under attack and from what direction. His gun turret turned in our direction and he opened fire missing us by some fifty yards short of our position. Our next shot hit the tank just below the turret and failed to penetrate the armour but went up into the air like a rocket. We continued our duel with the tank. We fired, they moved, halted and fired back. After some 15 shells had been fired Bill Vaux the loader who could not see what was going on but knew from the lack of movement of the gun that we were still engaging the original target enquired "When are you going to hit the bloody thing?". By now the tank was less than 100 yds from our position and we still could not penetrate its armour. The only thing I could think of was that the wheels that propelled the tank tracks were unprotected and so I shouted to Frank "Hit the bastard in the tracks, Frank". The gun muzzle dipped slightly and just as the tank moved we fired hitting the track propulsion wheels and the tank halted abruptly swinging to one side. Still full of fight they turned their gun in our direction and fired again hitting the bank in front of the gun. Our next shell must have disabled the turret as they opened the escape hatch and ran for their lives back towards their lines. George Prosser our Troop Sergeant had laid down by the gun taking pot shots with his rifle and hit the last German to leave the tank. The other two tanks that came through were on the right and left of our position. I decided to engage the one on the left, it was a perfect target silhouetted against a small hillock. I gave the necessary commands - direction - range - and a zero lead fire. Frank pressed the firing pedal and this time the shell penetrated the armour, exploded inside the tank and blew it into small pieces as its own ammunition went up. There were no survivors. I relaid the gun on the third tank, gave the order "Fire!". Frank followed the tank traversing left and right as it searched for our position and as it paused for a second he fired, completely destroying this one as we had the previous one.

    No more tanks were in our immediate vicinity and as heavy mortar fire was making our position very uncomfortable we were about to return to our slit trenches when a Sergeant from the 2nd Gloucesters ran over to our gun pit. He pointed to a small empty cottage about 300yds to our left and told us another tank was holed up behind it. We opened fire on the cottage and the whole place went up in flames. We waited but no tank emerged. Later on our long march into captivity I met this Sergeant again and he told me that the tank was burnt out at the back of the cottage as a result of our attack.

    Major Cartland who together with Mr Hutton-Squire and Mr D Woodward had observed this action from the very exposed position at the rear of the gun pit, came to me with new orders. However the damaged wheel proved difficult and it took both Frank and myself to get in on the axle leaving the whole crew and vehicle out in the open. Next day I returned to the gun pit which had been heavily mortared shortly after we left. Bill Vaux who was with me counted the empty shell cases, twenty-one in all. He considered it was too many for the net result of only, at that time, three confirmed tanks destroyed. He buried 17 empty shell cases in the slit trench. He then invited over the next few days all he could find to come and see our three tanks bagged with four shots!

    A message came that tanks were attempting to break through a road block on the road we were now on. As an attack was imminent it was decided we would fire the gun on its wheels. This again was something we knew the drill for but had never done or seen done. It called for a fourth man in the crew whose job was to hold the gun spike used for lifting in the trail eye and stop the gun turning over on recoil. "Tiny" James the biggest man in our crew was detailed for the job and we went to action stations prepared to fire. We were more worried about what would happen with the gun after we fired than the threat of the approaching tank. Major Cartland moved a French 75 field gun alongside us manned by a crew of French officers. Mr Hutton-Squire as always with complete disregard for his own safety had gone down towards the road block to see what was happening. Tension mounted and then an anti-climax as round the corner from the direction the tanks were expected came C Troop’s Dan R Len Griffiths on his motor bike. Now by this time Len was one of the few Dan R’s still riding his bike and as always he was full of the joys of spring. "Hello you shower of so and so’s" he greeted us and produced packets of cigarettes from his saddlebags for us all. About to throw a couple of packets to the Bren gunner he noticed for the first time that is was the Major. Throwing a very smart salute he apologised and saying that he knew the Major was a non-smoker like himself he gave him a large handful of 2oz bars of Cadbury’s chocolate. Major Cartland instructed him to go to his H.Q. and take the B.S.M. and his staff to Regimental H.Q. This was the last we saw of him until after the war. He told me that after Dunkirk when the roll of the Regiment was called he was the only man to parade when C Troop was called. He was decorated with the M.M. for his exploits on the road back to Dunkirk. Later in the war after service in the Middle East he went to Burma. He was again decorated this time with the D.C.M. and although badly wounded survived the war. Len Griffiths was as far as I know the most decorated O.R. in the Worcestershire Yeomanry.

    Mr Woodward’s A Troop had done sterling work during the attack in positions adjoining the left flank of C Troop, Bdr "Cag" Davies stopping two tanks at point- blank range, both tanks crews killed outright. About this time the French 75 did a shoot against tanks down in the valley. Where the gunners were I do not know but both times the gun was manned it was by the French Colonel and his officers and W.O. The French Colonel observed the shoot through his binoculars and announced that they had hit and destroyed six tanks. One 2pdr gun operating in the area where C1 had been that morning and operated by its one remaining gunner knocked out five tanks. Apparently a sniper of the fifth column hiding in the town had picked off the gun crew one by one. The last survivor of the gun crew saw the tanks approaching along a sunken road. He bravely got into the layers seat, hit the first tank, turned his gun on the last tank in the line disabling it and blocked the other tanks in a position where they could not move. He then destroyed the three other tanks which were completely trapped. I regret I do not know his name but believe he was from the 13th A/T Regt. R.A. All in all some 40-plus German tanks were destroyed on that Sunday afternoon.

    During the next few days we observed the activity down on the plain below us. The German troops were active but too far away for us to engage. At night we could see burning towns at our rear. They were Calais and Dunkirk. What we did not know was that we were nearly surrounded and cut off from the rest of the B.E.F. On the evening of the 29th May orders were given for the destruction of our guns and vehicles and with heavy hearts we went to Major Cartland’s H.Q. Major Cartland made a speech in which he explained our position and said the Brigade would leave Cassel on foot and attempt to reach our lines. No mention was made that the evacuation was already taking place at Dunkirk. He also said it was an "every man for himself" situation and any man who wished to make his own way was free to do so. All elected to follow the Major and armed with rifles, Brens and Mills bombs we set off through the burning town of Cassel. Leading the march and bringing up the rear were remnants of the Brigade’s two infantry regiments - The Glosters and The Ox and Bucks L.I., with R.A. and R.E. personnel in the centre of the column.

    At dawn we found ourselves under heavy fire from infantry and tanks. Very heavy casualties were inflicted on our battery and to save further losses Major Cartland gave the order to surrender. At this point heavy firing was going on and Major Cartland was killed. Mr Hutton-Squire, Tommy Bunn who was the Major’s driver and myself were some distance from the rest of the battery. Mr Hutton-Squire said that he was not going to become a prisoner and shouting "Follow me Bombadier" stormed out of the ditch we were in firing a Bren gun at a nearby tank and was killed by the answering burst of fire. Tommy Bunn and myself reached a ditch on the far side of the field and came under heavy fire from the same tank. We knew we would not be taken prisoner by this tank crew and crawled along the ditch towards a gate into the next field. We jumped from the ditch and ran through the gateway right into the middle of a German patrol who already had several of our battery prisoner. "Halt!" shouted their N.C.O. and Tommy and I went into the bag.

    Bdr. H.T. "Wally" MUNN
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  15. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Can you post the previous page to for the same day please.

    Better late than never. :lol: Sorry Andy. Did not see this request.

  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    :lol: I can't remember why I asked now :unsure:

    Cheers matey
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    From Capt Sir Basil Bartlett's Very Very Funny May 1940 Journal.

    I dined Chez Maurice with Ronald Cartland. He's one of the very few MP's mobilised in this Army. He's a man of enormous vitality who's shot up within a few months to being a Major in command of a battery. His services here have been better appreciated than they were in the House of Commons, where he's beaten his wings ineffectually for years against the Tory majority. He's rabidly anti-Chamberlain. He's waiting for another secret mission, when he'll go and attack the old gentleman once again for apathy and ignorance.

    Chez Maurice is my favourite pub in Lille. The fat and wheezy proprietor is friendly. His wife knows how to cook. And it has so far escaped the herdinstincts of the British Officer.

    I wonder if Chez Maurice is still trading in Lille?
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Was is Tewkesbury today , saw this cross outside the Abbey & remembered this thread.
    I know it's hard to read but it's her 2 brothers names as well as her Mother & Father.

    Attached Files:

    4jonboy and dbf like this.

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