Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by gash hand, Mar 2, 2020.
Yes, the phonetic system changed post War.
"Operation Goodwood" The British army biggest tank battle with some 600 allied tanks taking part in Normandy 18 - 20 July 1944. Remembering all those who took part in the operation and those who are still there. In particular "Eric" Albert Turner 3rd Royal Tank Regiment, a desert rat from North Africa who fought at the sharp end and went back again and again. Of such men as these the Prime Minister Winston Churchill had this to say whose life expectancy in the tanks in Normandy was 20 days. "It is a painful reflection that probably not one in four to five men who wear the kings uniform ever hear a bullet whistle, or likely to hear one." "The vast majority run no more risk than the civil population in Southern England, it is my unpleasant duty to dwell on these facts. One set of men are sent back again and again to the front, while the great majority are kept out of the fighting, to their regret. (well perhaps!)."
It is a fact the British Army's casualties in the Second World War were far fewer than those suffered in the First, nevertheless, daily casualty rates suffered by the Allies in Normandy equalled and exceeded some of the worst days of 1914 - 1918. For the 86 days between 6 June and 30 August 425,000 on both sides were killed in action. So much so, the death rate in Normandy became critical it brought the Adjutant General down from the War Office in London to warn General Montgomery, they only had replacements for two weeks.
Given this, these men can rightly claim the frieze along the top of the Bayeux Memorial - "We, once conquered by William, have now set free the Conqueror's native land." But for these men in 1940 when Britain stood alone in Europe, we will remember them all the tall poppies. We who have come since have been fortunate to have lived in the lucky half of the twentieth century.
An afterthought, I have to say, the British Army shot such men as their fathers in the Great War, for the sake of example.
Thank you Sheila
Posted in another thread by Mr Jinks aka Kyle
From The Pendulum of Battle Operation Goodwood July 1944
Sergeant Eric Whittaker, a troop sergeant in B Squadron, was in a Sherman Firefly heading for Hubert-Folie: As we got near the village we suddenly started losing tanks from 88s and tanks well concealed on the ridge. To my immediate left Sergeant Dickson was brewed-up by a gun hidden in a haystack, which I immediately eliminated. To my rear Corporal Taffy Richardson was also hit. On getting to the ridge I was hit twice. On baling out I found that my driver, Jack Turner, had been killed, the operator/loader, Harry Palmer, badly wounded in the leg, and the gunner, Titch Everett, had his foot blown off Nearby Sergeant Bob Lawton's Firefly had been struck on the gun mantiet, which had put his elevating gear out of order, so we got my two wounded men on bedding rolls on the back of his tank and got them back to the MO, Captain Macmillan.'
Thank you Gentlemen your prompt response in solving problems on our behalf is much appreciated. Thank you. Sheila
We believe this picture to be of Trooper Palmer or Everett of B squadron 3rtr taken in Aldershot spring 1944. Can anyone confirm the ID of this young man please
Can anyone identify this young man please, we believe it may be Trooper Palmer or Everett of B squadron 3rtr. photo may have been taken in Aldershot 1944. Anyone with any thoughts or ideas please let us know thank you.
Remembering today 18 July 1944 the anniversary of driver Jack Turner 3RTR, also known as Uncle Eric to his family, killed on Operation Goodwood in Normandy. I would like to renew my request for any information on his crew mates
Sgt Eric Whittaker, Trp Titch Everett and Trp Harry Palmer. Thank you
Remembering and saluting all brave young men who were killed today and all the other days of WW2 . God Bless them all.
Morning, I've just found this fascinating thread concerning a crew member of 3rd RTR lost on the 18th of July during Operation Goodwood. My wife's Great uncle (Jack Thomas Lyons) was also in 3rd RTR and also died on the 18th of July. Like Shelia my wife is trying to find out information regarding what troop he was in etc. She is in the process of filling out a request form for information from the MoD. On the Commonwealth war graves records he was shown as initially being buried at Le-Mesnil-Frementel which was West of Cagny.
hello, ww2talk is a very informative and helpful place to be, I wish you best of luck in your search for info on Trooper JT Lyons. Kind regards Sheila
Thank you Shelia, from reading this thread and others I could see it was an informative and helpful site.
Hello. We thought this may be of interest, in the book Taurus Pursuant History of the 11th Armoured Division in N/W Europe, published just after the War are given the names of those KIA and entered in the ROLL OF HONOUR.
There are many more units entered there. This is the section for 3RTR. You will see your relative's name is entered along with A Turner. This leads to a very interesting aspect. All of these men including our relatives would have been known
to each other very well given they were Desert Rats and in the previous years whilst serving in North Africa they could well have been, on occasions, crewed together, given the extraneous contingencies they were constantly under, 24 hours
a day, week after week, month after month and year after year defeating the German Africa Corp Panzers. Have no doubt about it these men had fought together at the very sharp end for a long time before Normandy and were the most battle hardened and experienced men in the British Army. Still at the sharp end in Normandy, given as we now know, the life expectancy for a Sherman tank crewman was 13 days. We should well remember but for these men and their fathers who fought the Great War for us. We have been truly fortunate to have lived in the lucky half of the 20th Century.
Here we give the Roll of Honour
Afternoon Shelia, yes we I have that book as well as some other that I can highly recommend. I've found them very useful in tracking the advance of 3rd RTR on that day. I'm sure as you say that John Lyons would have known your relative. We are hoping when his records come back that we can see if he served in North Africa and Greece.
Hello thanks for the info, Yes, we have the books you mentioned, as you say, you will know more when you get records through, be interesting to know what you discover from them.
Separate names with a comma.