B.E.F 10th May (not June)1940

Discussion in '1940' started by DavidW, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know of a website or on-line article that shows the locations of the Divisions and Brigades of the B.E.F at 10th May 1940?

    Thanks in advance,
    David.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  2. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    I doubt there is a single place where all the information you require is laid out exactly as you want it - unless somebody else has previously gone through the very same thought process as you are now.

    However, there is plenty of material available across a range of locations for you to piece it all together quite accurately. Shouldn't take too much time for you to do it as there was only a handful of formations to look out for.
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Can you be more specific as to what Div's etc you are interested in?
     
  4. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Hi Drew.

    1st Infantry Division
    2nd Infantry Division
    3rd Infantry Division
    4th Infantry Division
    5th Infantry Division
    12th Infantry Division
    23rd Infantry Division
    42nd Infantry Division
    44th Infantry Division
    46th Infantry Division
    48th Infantry Division
    50th Motorised Infantry Division
    51st Infantry Division
    52nd Infantry Division

    Kind regards,
    David.
     
  5. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Oh!

    You want to know about the divisions back in the UK too. That does complicate things and up the workload somewhat.

    I am sure you can find all the info you need for the formations in France by reading through this site alone. Details regarding those in the UK is likely to be a quite different story.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  6. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place.... Patron

    What is your interest? Why do you want to know? A little bit of context might help.

    3 Div's HQ was Frome (Nigel Hamilton: Monty)
    50 Div assembled at Knutsford Cheshire, which is probably where they were on 10 June then to Dorset (delaforce Monty's Northern Legions)
    12 Div - labour formation overrun in France 20 May disbanded 11 July 1940 (Jocelyn: orders of Battle )
    23 Div - labour formation overrun in France 20 May disbanded 30 June 1940 (Jocelyn: orders of Battle)
    51st Div St Valery Normandy https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-NWE-Flanders/maps/UK-NWE-Flanders-13.jpg
    52nd Div Between Cherbourg and Rennes https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-NWE-Flanders/UK-NWE-Flanders-21.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  7. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Hi Sheldrake.

    I'm looking for locations of the divisions at 10th May 1940 to create a realistic starting scenario for the battle of France. I have the Dutch, Belgian, and 95% of the French. i am just starting with the B.E.F. But am leaving the Germans until last.

    Kind regards,
    David.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  8. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    If its start of the Battle of France is that not 10th May rather than June?
     
  9. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Starting scenario? 10th June 1940?

    Suggest you have a thorough read of Ellis' official history before you go any further. Will provide much of the info you are looking for, if not all.
     
  10. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    You are correct!

    That's super embarrassing!

    I was thinking of Italy's entry into WWII and put that date instead.
     
  11. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    How do I correct the thread title?
     
  12. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Well, if you are after details relating to the start of Fall Gelb rather than 5 days after the start of Fall Rot, then it you are covering ground done to death a million times already.

    As above, for the British forces, have a thorough read of Ellis' official history.

    For the Germans, l believe a complete record of Fall Gelb planning and concentration of forces is online at germandocsinrussia
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I can't tell you the Div's in the UK. I only have the war diaries for those that were in France.
     
  14. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    They were all in France on the correct date of 10th May 1940.

    Sorry.
     
  15. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know how I can change the date on the title?
     
  16. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    I think 52nd Div only arrived after the British involvement in the Battle of France was pretty much over - off the boat and back on the boat very quickly although to be honest my knowledge of the 1940 campaign isn't great
     
  17. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Indeed.

    It would need to be included in the original request for 10 June but not an earlier date in May.

    Still, whatever date he really wants information for, l imagine almost everything can be extracted from Ellis' official history - especially the 9-10 May timeframe.

    The tricky thing will be to decide whether he wants to take the start locations in France or the advanced positions in Belgium they then moved to to face the Germans.
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  19. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I'll take a look.

    Kind regards.
    David.
     
  20. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Indeed. Ellis' official history is the obvious start point for this. It's what Sheldrake pointed to, myself and now you.

    Problem for DavidW will be whether he wants to use the locations in France in the evening of 9 May - when the Germans began their advance - list the locations as "on the move" which is applicable for much of 10 and 11 May, or try to identify the exact location of the various formation HQs on the road at some specified time on 10 May, or the arrival locations in Belgium after the move.

    The last option is the one most go for which has certain merits but of course is not the correct location if specifying where anything was at the "start" of Fall Gelb. I mean, if you take the "start" point of the Germans on 9 May as being in Germany, aligning that with locations of the British in Belgium on the 12 May is not a 'true' comparison.
     

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